testy

Author Topic: Race frames...  (Read 18193 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Yoshi823

  • Biker to the bone.
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Never too old to be a biker
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2009, 03:00:51 PM »
yes, the two concepts are the same

The MotoGP ducati that nicky and stoner have been using this year had a carbon frame and its not the first ever.

Cagiva had a carbon 500 gp bike in the 90's and uk based skoal bandit suzuki ran their own carbon kevlar frames in 500 gp in the 80's .later the britten made use of a carbon frame, fork and wheels too.

Making structural carbon fiber components is a very different story compared to using fiberglass. Just cutting carbon fiber pre-preg requires tungsten knives or other exotic cutting methods and to obtain deffect free componenets, curing is done in huge autoclaves. add also milled aluminum tooling to form the parts.....

not that I want to discourage you, but its quite an endeavor

TG

And don't forget the CF wheels on Freddie Spencer's NSR500....that fell apart at an inopportune moment.
Bikes...they're in the blood.

Yamaha 2001 R1
Yamaha 1990 FZR1000R EXUP
KTM 2004 450 EXC RFS
Honda 1997 XR400R
Honda 1988 CB125T2

http://www.cb750cafe.com/bikes.php?cat=3&id=67

Offline Yoshi823

  • Biker to the bone.
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Never too old to be a biker
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2009, 03:07:20 PM »
yes.......................................................................

that pantall kawasaki brings back a few memories , people forget just how good a racer crosby was

I will never forget how good he was/is. Saw him the first time back in '78 on Brands, think it was the Anglo -American. Riding against Cooley, Pierce etc.
Just kept wheeliing that big thing. Promised myself that I would name my first born after him, and in '84 Graeme was born.
IMHO he paved way for Gardner, who had a better Moriwaki then Graeme ever did. Crosby did win the Suzuka eight hour and in Daytona the Superbikes '79 and later the 200 miler, won the Imola 200 the same year, became 2nd in the 500 that year, did not feel happy and went home.

Rob

I was at Brands at the same time...those were the days eh?
Croz also raced at the Isle of Man...he left the Highlander pub in 1980 at the same time as us and we chased him all the way back towards Douglas...and I got done for speeding. Oh well...it's the memories that count.
Bikes...they're in the blood.

Yamaha 2001 R1
Yamaha 1990 FZR1000R EXUP
KTM 2004 450 EXC RFS
Honda 1997 XR400R
Honda 1988 CB125T2

http://www.cb750cafe.com/bikes.php?cat=3&id=67

Offline azuredesign

  • Knupping pin
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,684
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »
yes, the two concepts are the same

The MotoGP ducati that nicky and stoner have been using this year had a carbon frame and its not the first ever.

Cagiva had a carbon 500 gp bike in the 90's and uk based skoal bandit suzuki ran their own carbon kevlar frames in 500 gp in the 80's .later the britten made use of a carbon frame, fork and wheels too.

Making structural carbon fiber components is a very different story compared to using fiberglass. Just cutting carbon fiber pre-preg requires tungsten knives or other exotic cutting methods and to obtain deffect free componenets, curing is done in huge autoclaves. add also milled aluminum tooling to form the parts.....

not that I want to discourage you, but its quite an endeavor

TG

Thanks for the information! Thinking ambitiously is much easier and cheaper than actually doing so I'm not discouraged at all.





 

 

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,190
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2009, 04:32:06 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys, unsprung weight can bring big benefits as well, maybe even more benefit on these old bikes as the older style brakes and wheels are very heavy..

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline von_Wanderlust

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 142
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2009, 04:18:39 AM »
I bought a book a while back, 'Motorcycle Road & Racing Chassis' by a Mr. Keith Noakes, about the history of the different independent frame builders. I could have sworn that the writeup said that it had 'specs' on the bikes/frames, but I maybe I was reading what I wanted to hear. ::) Nonetheless it's still an interesting read, with little anecdotes here and there.

There's a pic in there of a bare Dresda frame for a CB750 engine, it's a nice pic as there are no parts to get in the way of looking at the frame itself. I like the framework around the head tube.
2.5 kids: 1 x CB500, 1 x CB550, 0.5 x CB550 (all basket cases)

Offline Howell

  • Honda the power of dreams
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
    • CB500 classic racing
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2009, 05:03:27 AM »
And this drawing of a Egli frame , thanks to my friend Jan W.:
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 05:08:17 AM by Howell »
You meet the nicest people on a Honda

Offline von_Wanderlust

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 142
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2009, 05:47:56 AM »
We have a winner! Bravo!  ;D 8)
2.5 kids: 1 x CB500, 1 x CB550, 0.5 x CB550 (all basket cases)

Offline Yoshi823

  • Biker to the bone.
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • Never too old to be a biker
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2009, 06:33:15 AM »
On my modified standard frame, the gussets and braces were from 531, the front right and top right engine mount plates were made from Alcoa,all wheel and bearing spacers from Dural,bottom yoke from CB900FZ which is cast ally rather than steel, oil tank and battery boxes held in place with ally bolts,battery box drilled,smaller battery, etc.
Effectively, every single nut and bolt was looked at with a view to making it lighter, without going to the titanium bolt supplier with a large wadge...but there were not many of them about back in 1981 when I took the plunge with th hacksaw.That's why I used plenty of dural and Alcoa...because that was what was available from the material stores.
Bikes...they're in the blood.

Yamaha 2001 R1
Yamaha 1990 FZR1000R EXUP
KTM 2004 450 EXC RFS
Honda 1997 XR400R
Honda 1988 CB125T2

http://www.cb750cafe.com/bikes.php?cat=3&id=67

Offline voxonda

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,046
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2009, 06:49:20 AM »
Hey Yoshi,

What is Alcoa? Never heard of the term. Suppose it's a alloy?

Rob
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,438
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2009, 08:49:07 AM »
is Dural  7075 Al ?.. or Ti
 And by Alcoa..Which alloy do you mean?
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way
69 z50
OHV 200..(Trail 90)

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,873
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2009, 09:19:38 AM »
I bought a book a while back, 'Motorcycle Road & Racing Chassis' by a Mr. Keith Noakes, about the history of the different independent frame builders. I could have sworn that the writeup said that it had 'specs' on the bikes/frames, but I maybe I was reading what I wanted to hear. ::) Nonetheless it's still an interesting read, with little anecdotes here and there.

There's a pic in there of a bare Dresda frame for a CB750 engine, it's a nice pic as there are no parts to get in the way of looking at the frame itself. I like the framework around the head tube.

very featherbed-ish. nice picture.
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,873
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2009, 09:19:55 AM »
And this drawing of a Egli frame , thanks to my friend Jan W.:

this is great! thanks!
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline simon#42

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,053
  • liverpool
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2009, 10:21:18 AM »
And this drawing of a Egli frame , thanks to my friend Jan W.:

thats great , i will add that to my files!!

your right about the dresda paul they were all featherbed copies adapted for various engines

Offline Howell

  • Honda the power of dreams
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
    • CB500 classic racing
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2009, 12:36:14 PM »
Another Egli , thanks JanW
You meet the nicest people on a Honda

Offline Howell

  • Honda the power of dreams
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
    • CB500 classic racing
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2009, 12:48:57 PM »
Nico Bakker framed CB500.
Only one made , owner doesn't want to sell it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 12:51:40 PM by Howell »
You meet the nicest people on a Honda

Offline Howell

  • Honda the power of dreams
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
    • CB500 classic racing
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2009, 01:15:31 PM »
Rob North framed CB500
You meet the nicest people on a Honda

Offline Howell

  • Honda the power of dreams
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
    • CB500 classic racing
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2009, 06:58:17 AM »
Bimota HB1
You meet the nicest people on a Honda

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,190
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2009, 03:16:38 PM »
Bimota HB1

I would like to see that frame in more detail.... ;)

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Soos

  • Just a butcher with a carbide hatchet, definitely not a
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2009, 04:32:29 PM »
That Nico Bakker frame looks like it needs a 650 motor in it!
 ;D ;D ;D




EXCELENT pics people!   Makes me want to go with the monoshock on my next bike!





l8r
-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline Howell

  • Honda the power of dreams
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 565
    • CB500 classic racing
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2009, 12:46:30 AM »
Bimota HB1

I would like to see that frame in more detail.... ;)

Mick

I have no more than this picture.
You meet the nicest people on a Honda

Offline cavebear

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2009, 06:10:52 PM »
CB 750 stressed member frame made by Moto Martin about 1975.



Seeley Honda frame made Reynolds 531 chrome moly. Tube joints fish mouthed then brazed, not welded. Frame 13 lbs lighter than stock. Many consider it the best CB750 aftermarket frame made



Mike
1975 MotoMartin 836cc
1976 Rickman 1150cc Turbo
1977 Seeley 890cc + 1/4 stroke
3 parts bikes,1970K0 to 1978ss

Get paid to do it,it's work; pay to do it,it's a hobby

Offline roccitycafe

  • addict
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 107
    • roc city cafe racers
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2009, 08:10:14 PM »
i believe the guy said he was looking to make a frame guys, though your sources are good. i've looked all over the net for frame blueprints that aren't for cheesy "customs" and haven't even turned up a featherbed, so if anyone has any ideas i'm eagerly watching as well. i have foale's book as well as the suspension setup program he sells, but i'd still like to find some blueprints for tested designs.

i love how some of the honda factory manuals have very detailed frame specs and blueprints in them. it would be great to find these for featherbed. dresda, egli, drixton, etc. i'm particularly looking for the drixton honda 450 blueprints, so please somebody share!


you can view patent docs for the featherbed frame... not sure dimensions are there, but that's something you could work out
www.roccitycafe.com <- my sideline turned living

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,873
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2009, 11:40:28 PM »
i believe the guy said he was looking to make a frame guys, though your sources are good. i've looked all over the net for frame blueprints that aren't for cheesy "customs" and haven't even turned up a featherbed, so if anyone has any ideas i'm eagerly watching as well. i have foale's book as well as the suspension setup program he sells, but i'd still like to find some blueprints for tested designs.

i love how some of the honda factory manuals have very detailed frame specs and blueprints in them. it would be great to find these for featherbed. dresda, egli, drixton, etc. i'm particularly looking for the drixton honda 450 blueprints, so please somebody share!


you can view patent docs for the featherbed frame... not sure dimensions are there, but that's something you could work out

yeah, i found those. no measurements. if you know what rake, trail, and wheel base you want, i don't suppose it would be to hard to figure the rest out though.
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Online Don R

  • Retired plumber
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,953
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2010, 08:24:30 PM »
   It has been discussed to death on the drag race sites but almost all tube drag cars are chrome moly, tig welded with mild steel rod. Mine has been down the track over a thousand times. Built in 91. I did upright repairs a couple years ago due to the flex built in and the 225" wheelbase. The tubing cracked at the upright around the weld. This is an extreme example of flexing a moly assembly. It wheelies even with weight on the nose.
 I would think a well designed moly bike frame would hold up extremely well and be light weight.
The wheel keeps on turning and you cant slow down, you can't hold on and you can't let go, you can't go back and you can't stand still, if the thunder don't get ya then the lightnin will.

Offline pae

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 212
    • Phil Edwards CB650 pages
Re: Race frames...
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2010, 02:10:59 AM »
Take a look at Jim Schmidt's Norton monoshock frame - plans are available in Autocad - $10 for a CD with drawings and photo's. Might not be ideal for what you want to do, but a good starting point and you can pull a few key dimensions from them as a start point for what you want to build.

Bargain really, I've got a set as inspiration for my next project.

http://www.jsengineering.net/ follow the Norton frame Plan link

Good thread btw, excellent links in here, must keep an eye on this one.

Phil
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 02:14:25 AM by pae »
'79 CB650  .... | ....  XJ600 electric drag racer  .... | ....  T W M C

It takes a lot of practice to sound like yourself

 

;