Topic: Ford Unveils New Car For Cash-Strapped Buyers

[Laminar]

I see you want to bite my turds again lammy. I have had 1 ford. I will never own another one again by choice.

You need to learn a thing or two about statistics and sample sizes.

As such, I am not an sho expert and really dont care. I know enough that in the sho heyday, the yammy engine was the best when comparing stock.

Uh...what? You're making it pretty apparent that you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't get an SHO (well, '99 or older SHO) with getting a "Yammy" (really, it's okay to say "Yamaha" - no one's being fooled into thinking that you know what you're talking out).

The 3.0 and 3.2 V6 engines were designed and supplied by Yamaha for Ford, and every '89-'95 SHO had one or the other. The 3.4 V8 was a joint effort between Ford and Yamaha. It was based on the Duratec V6 (essentially the 2.5 V6 with a couple extra cylinders). Ford cast the block and sent it to Yamaha for finishing.

Your post made it sound like you believe it's possible to get an SHO without a Yamaha engine.

Not surprising considering that ford used a mazda engine that was a 1.8 that made about double the power as a ford 1.9. Pretty sad. Hey you like them, great.

Yeah, Ford has owned a stake in Mazda since the '70s. I'm not sure what you were trying to get at. It almost sounded like you were trying to say that Fords are **** compared to Mazdas because of a single instance where Ford chose to use a Mazda engine. So then it wouldn't make sense that the first-gen Mazda6 used Ford's Duratec 3.0 and the current-gen uses the Cyclone 3.7, would it?

If I wanted to pay for the gas, I would still have an S-10 pickup or blazer with a 350 stuffed in it but I prefer the 35 mpg I get in my mazda as there is just no real use for a 350 s-10.

[Inigo Montoya]

WOW you really watch things dont you! Saturday night and you are so much a loser at your age you are on the net.
1: I dont care about sample sizes or stats. Any ford I have driven has been a big turd. No accel and poor economy. In the case of the ford I owned, worthless brakes. Good enough for me.

As for fooling people into knowing what I am thinking, that would be you, except when people call you on it, you do the personal attack bit and then try to carry on longer than the other person so it looks like you have a clue. I DO know the late 80s-early 90s had the "yamaha" (since you seem to dislike yammy for some reason, must be inadequacy on your part). As for a joint effort, maybe but it was still branded a ford engine, not a yamaha. So in a way, yes, you COULD get a sho without a yamaha engine. But whatever your fantasy requires I guess.

I know ford owns part of mazda but mazda designs their own #$%* and so quality IS different. Also, ford used mazda parts on the probe, so there is more than one instance but what would you know.

As for the last part, what, you never heard of a 350 stuffed into an s-10? Hell a 454 could be but was a HUGE pain. Of course you will come back with more bs like you usually do and say you did know it. Yeah sure.
The level of BS can be somewhat accurately gauged by the number of ignores. You are leading there.
Have a nice night. Unlike you, I DO have better things to do.

[ColinMc]

I'm confused...what are you guys arguing about again?!

The SHO is a premium over the regular Taurus, just like the SHO always has been. It's a different interior package, exterior package, wheels, brakes, suspension, engine, transmission...so I don't see the price difference being that absurd. Every company does this with their cars.

CTS and the CTS-V
BMW anything...1 series, 3 series, 5 series...different engine options for all of those...and boy do they get expensive fast
VW Golf/GTI/R32
Mazda3 and the Mazdaspeed version
Mazda6 and the Mazdaspeed version
Mini Cooper and the S model...and then JCW model on top of that.

I don't think it's that absurd. Would I buy a new SHO? No. I love my Mini Cooper S too much and the 37 mpg I get driving like a maniac in that thing lol. Wait sorry it's 36.9 mpg i've averaged since new...34k miles on it now.

But anyways...I don't see what the big deal is...or are you guys arguing about something completely different?

[Bob Wessner]

It did remind me, on a slightly more serious note, of a Ford story I saw in last Sunday's paper. It seems Ford is banking heavily on what they are calling their Eco-boost engine design. From what I could tell from the article, they are small displacement engines, but turbo-charged. I guess the extent to which they are "eco" depends on how often you "boost."   The interesting part was Ford felt that buyers would be willing to pay an extra $5,000-$10,000 for cars with these engines. Umm, not me thanks.

After reading some subsequent articles on the eco-boost, it seems the author of the article I first referred to didn't bother to explore the details. The reference to and additional $5-$10K was as part of an entire upgrade package on some models. The true 'additional' cost of the turbo package is $500-$700, far more palatable.

[Laminar]

WOW you really watch things dont you! Saturday night and you are so much a loser at your age you are on the net.

Ah yes, the only reason somebody would be online on a Saturday night is that he/she is a loser. It couldn't possibly be that the night's "activities" were over, and I'm waiting for the wife to come home for...nevermind. I'll tell you when you're older. But wait...aren't you online on a Saturday night as well? Hm...

1: I dont care about sample sizes or stats. Any ford I have driven has been a big turd. No accel and poor economy. In the case of the ford I owned, worthless brakes. Good enough for me.

Yep. What do the people at Motor Trend know? What does any other recognized expert on cars know? Every Ford you've driven is a turd. It seems that you're completely unaware of the power of internal biases and the things that your subconscious can do to your perception.

As for fooling people into knowing what I am thinking, that would be you, except when people call you on it, you do the personal attack bit and then try to carry on longer than the other person so it looks like you have a clue.

Nope. I gave you data and facts. This is what you said:

Colin, did yours have the engine made by yamaha?

in response to this post:

I miss my 95 Taurus SHO

Asking that question would lead me to believe one of three things:

1. You missed the part where he said it was a '95, because you knew every '95 SHO had the Yamaha engine

2. You missed the part where he said it was an SHO, because you knew every SHO had the Yamaha engine

3. You didn't actually know that the SHO was only available with a Yamaha engine

But quick! Find some way to rationalize it, or if you can't, just say that it's stupid and you don't care.

I DO know the late 80s-early 90s had the "yamaha" (since you seem to dislike yammy for some reason, must be inadequacy on your part). As for a joint effort, maybe but it was still branded a ford engine, not a yamaha. So in a way, yes, you COULD get a sho without a yamaha engine. But whatever your fantasy requires I guess.

I said that the first and second gen Taurus SHO's engine was designed and supplied to Ford by Yamaha, and the third gen Taurus SHO's engine was developed and manufactured jointly. Please tell me which of these engines is branded a Yamaha engine, and which is branded a Ford engine:





One could argue that the Yamaha-supplied V6 engine, because it's the engine with the giant Ford oval on it, is MORE of a Ford engine than the jointly-designed V8, which simply says SHO.

But once again, rationalize this, say that wasn't what you meant, or say that it's irrelevant and you don't care.

I know ford owns part of mazda but mazda designs their own #$%* and so quality IS different.

Did you miss the part where I said that Mazda uses Ford engines at times? What part of "AutoAlliance" don't you understand? Explain where Mazda got the design and parts for the B-Series, the Navajo, and how about the transaxle used in the V6 626? Oh, that's just a rebadged Ford CD4E. My point here, if you're not getting it yet is that Ford and Mazda often share designs and components back and forth. It's not a one-way thing with Ford leeching off of Mazda's designs because Ford knows they can't do anything right.

Also, ford used mazda parts on the probe, so there is more than one instance but what would you know.

Yeah, what would I know about the Probe/MX-6...



Oops! I used to own one!

You misunderstood what I said. What I said is that you made the conclusion that Fords are crap based on a comparison of one engine from each manufacturer. I never said that Ford used a Mazda engine only once. I'm well aware of the Navajo (Explorer), the B-series (Ranger), the Escape (626), etc. etc.

As for the last part, what, you never heard of a 350 stuffed into an s-10? Hell a 454 could be but was a HUGE pain. Of course you will come back with more bs like you usually do and say you did know it. Yeah sure.

One of my buddies has an S10 with a 350. I wasn't confused on what it was, I was confused on why it was relevant. No one is talking about engine swaps, S10s, or every Chevys. It kind of came out of nowhere.

The level of BS can be somewhat accurately gauged by the number of ignores.

Not at all. But if that's the conclusion you have to make to feel superior, I wouldn't want to take that away from you.

Have a nice night. Unlike you, I DO have better things to do.

Now I'm pretty dumb, so you'll have to bear with me as I try and work through this. You said:

As for fooling people into knowing what I am thinking, that would be you, except when people call you on it, you do the personal attack bit and then try to carry on longer than the other person so it looks like you have a clue.

This tells me that you believe two things are inadmissible in an argument:

1. Personal attacks
2. Carrying on for the sake of carrying on -- trying to get the "last word" without actually adding anything to the conversation

If you truly believe #1 is inadmissible, then what's this:

Saturday night and you are so much a loser at your age you are on the net.

and this:

Have a nice night. Unlike you, I DO have better things to do.

and this:

must be inadequacy on your part

But...but...I thought personal attacks were bad!!?!

And how about this:

.

If you don't recognize that, it's post #30 from page 1. What it appears to be to my (admittedly untrained) eye, is trying to get the "last word" without actually adding anything to the conversation.

But...but...I thought that was bad!!?!

You have a four choices now:

1. Admit that you were wrong and apologize for the unnecessary personal attacks

2. Use actual facts with actual sources to prove that anything I said was false (I'm totally willing to recant anything I say if sufficient evidence is presented to prove I was mistaken)

3. Reply with a bunch of personal attacks and worthless opinions, tell me that I'm stupid and in the process, you add nothing to the conversation, all in an attempt to get the last word

4. Not reply at all.

Remember: You've stated that it's inadmissible to "try to carry on longer than the other person so it looks like you have a clue." So an attempt to continue this debate without actually adding anything to it would be in direct violation of what you believe to be right and wrong.

I'm hoping for 1, 2, or 4, but I'm betting on 3.

[Gordon]

Get a room, you two!

[Inigo Montoya]

Isnt lammy so much fun to pick on! He takes himself WAY too seriously and thinks he knows way more than he actually does!

You see lammy-boy, I am older than you. I have done my saturday nights, probably way more than you ever will. Kids do that though, you will learn when you grow pubes.
Just as you are unaware. It doesn't matter what you think. Only what I have EXPERIENCED with ford junkers. Good enough for me, why would someone willing buy something that has proven to be junk. Someone besides you that is; someone with half a brain.

You never give facts and data, you give the most biased crap you can dredge up or YOUR own opinion. Those are not facts.

Well I could rationalize it but why should I put forth the effort for you? I am just here to piss you off. See people like you that think they know everything are the easiest to piss off and make look stupid. I really don't have to help you on that since you do it so well yourself!

Wow so you owned a probe too! OMG!!! I could have put the edsel in there and you would have owned that too! What a sack of crap. You are the type of guy that everyone knows that brags about themselves constantly and always talks louder than everyone else to make themselves look more important and make it look like they know more.

As for being superiour, it would be because I am, but then no one else here is quite the moron you are.

You have a four choices now:

1. Admit that you were wrong and apologize for the unnecessary personal attacks

2. Use actual facts with actual sources to prove that anything I said was false (I'm totally willing to recant anything I say if sufficient evidence is presented to prove I was mistaken)

3. Reply with a bunch of personal attacks and worthless opinions, tell me that I'm stupid and in the process, you add nothing to the conversation, all in an attempt to get the last word

4. Not reply at all.

Remember: You've stated that it's inadmissible to "try to carry on longer than the other person so it looks like you have a clue." So an attempt to continue this debate without actually adding anything to it would be in direct violation of what you believe to be right and wrong.

I'm hoping for 1, 2, or 4, but I'm betting on 3.

Why should you get anything BUT 3? After all, you have never apologized to here either and you have been wrong many times and have made all the personal attacks first, just like you did here.
As for facts, you have yet to really have any. I have not stated anything but opinions which of course do not need to be backed up....because they are OPINIONS.
So you see, since anytime someone, doesn't matter who it is, if they disagree with you, then you turn douchie. That being the case, then I am treating you as such.
When we get ignored by 5 people, then you can think you are as good as me!

You know something about arguing on the internet? No matter who wins, both are retards! Difference is I think it is funny while you are still trying to look right and look like you know anything!

Sorry everyone, but picking on lammy is fun! You all know that though, espscially you gordon!

[Gordon]

Sorry everyone, but picking on lammy is fun! You all know that though, espscially you gordon!

It's only fun to have a battle of wits when both people are armed. 

[Bob Wessner]

[Spikeybike]

ok now it's time for Terry and ED .... 


 "i wish bush was still in office, so he could really straighten out those damn Aussie's"   


                                                     ...........aaaaaaand  GO

[Inigo Montoya]

Alright, fine gordon! You win!

Now now spikey, We don't need terry and ed going off!

[Spikeybike]

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I see you know what would happen!

[Laminar]

After all, you have never apologized to here either and you have been wrong many times

Oh, you mean like this time, when you were right and I was horribly wrong? Oh wait, it was the other way around. You said something stupid and I nailed the problem exactly.

I have asked time and time again for specific examples of me being terribly wrong, but whenever I do, you always claim that you just can't be bothered.

And you love bringing up the fact that people have me ignored. Are you aware of why that is? And are you aware that at one time there were 13 people ignoring me, but over time they've realized that maybe my posts are worth something? For all you know the last five people don't even visit the boards anymore.

You never give facts and data, you give the most biased crap you can dredge up or YOUR own opinion. Those are not facts.

Yep. Horribly biased crap like

The 3.0 and 3.2 V6 engines were designed and supplied by Yamaha for Ford, and every '89-'95 SHO had one or the other. The 3.4 V8 was a joint effort between Ford and Yamaha. It was based on the Duratec V6 (essentially the 2.5 V6 with a couple extra cylinders). Ford cast the block and sent it to Yamaha for finishing.

Boy, that statement was so riddled with bias and my own opinion, you'd think it was from a Fox News broadcast!!

Wow so you owned a probe too! OMG!!! I could have put the edsel in there and you would have owned that too! What a sack of crap.

Of course you'd say this. Which is why I posted a picture of the Probe I owned. But of course you wouldn't believe that was mine, because that might mean I know what I'm talking about. I suppose you're so hell-bent on disbelieving me that even if I were to post a picture of the car on which that same license plate currently resides, with my sister in the driver's seat, you still wouldn't believe me. Oh well, here goes:



Inigo/Vinmans Brew/Eldar, I tried to clear up whatever beef you have with me through PMs, but apparently that didn't work. You even promised not to reply to me at all, but I guess that didn't stick.

I'd put you on ignore and end this, but I'm afraid of what you'll suggest to unsuspecting posters that haven't yet learned to ignore your suggestions, as was the case in the previously linked thread. Just to reiterate what happened, so that we don't forget, I'll post (using FACTS only) exactly what happened.

As a disclaimer, I want to say that everything past this point is an exact quote from the thread, just so that none of my awful, terrible bias can poison what really happened. I'd also like to put forth the definition of "fact" that I'm using - "A fact is a pragmatic truth, a statement that can, at least in theory, be checked and confirmed." Everyone is free to check and confirm whether or not this dialog really happened:

ok so I got my dyna S installed and now something funny happens. When I use the starter button the bike does not start until I take my finger off the button. It can sit there and crank all day but until I release it won't start. Starts with the kicker just fine. thinking it might either be the switch or the solenoid. Ok guys, give it yer best shot.......

OK just so I have it right. When holding the button it DOES crank just not start right? Only theory I have is that the starter manages to draw just enough power that the spark is not strong enough to burn the mix. When you let it go, the engine spins for just slightly longer but there is more juice available for the coils and off it goes. Best I can think of right now.

Use a multimeter to see if your coils are getting any voltage at all when the starter button is pressed. The starter button also disconnects the power from the lights when pushed, so there's always a possibility that some wires got mixed up and the power to the ignition is being turned off when the button is pushed in.

How about the positive line? I know corrosion usually takes place on the negative but I have seen it on the positive as well, just not on a cb. Just a thought.

I figured it out. The instructions say to hook the power source to the brake light lead (constant power). I had it hooked to the Taillight lead (which shuts off when you hit the starter button).

As can be clearly checked and confirmed by anyone that would like, I was right. This is a fact. This is not a horrible, terrible, biased opinion of mine. From this point forward, saying that I never use facts and that all of the claims I make are false is definitely untrue, and therefore an inadmissible argument.

Alright, back to horrible biased opinions devoid of facts:

As I mentioned earlier, you made the claim that personal attacks weren't admissible in a debate. But rereading your last post, I can see that it's nothing but personal attacks. You've made it clear that you're not interested in learning anything. You made it clear that you're not interested in seeking what's true and right. You made it clear that you're not even interested in arguing with me, just arguing against me, no matter what I say.

With that, I graciously offer you the last word. Enjoy what few feelings of superiority you can manage, miniscule and meaningless as they may be.

[Bob Wessner]

[Inigo Montoya]

 Per gordon's statement, I can't pick on you anymore. Sorry, you don't qualify lammy.

[ColinMc]

I state again...I miss my 95 SHO....but every part on it that was made by JUST ford...junk lol. The body rusted to pieces, the interior rattled like crazy, the electrics were a nightmare. Oh and I used to work on JUST SHO's I had 4 at one time...at the SAME time!

Oh and the Explorer I had...that rusted to peices too...

I wouldn't buy a ford again either lol.

[Inigo Montoya]

 

[Gordon]

Per gordon's statement, I can't pick on you anymore. Sorry, you don't qualify lammy.

You assume I was only talking about him?

[Inigo Montoya]

Of course I assumed!

[ColinMc]

Don't even get me started on the S281 Saleen i had...for 6 months before Ford had to BUY it back from me...gotta love the lemon law. Along with all the mechanical problems...the exterior fancy trim package kept on falling off...that and the cool center exit exhaust, was fake. It was just two exhaust tips in the middle of the bumper. The real mufflers were tucked up under the side so on a cold day you could see the exhaust coming from the sides of the car NOT the "exhaust tips" where it should have.

That was the last straw with Ford for me. No thanks.

[noahspop]

Just to add my 2 cents.
My wife drives a 08' Escape.
I must say that Ford has cleaned up their act.
(oh, and that's my opinion)

[ColinMc]

Everyone is going to have different experiences with different companies. I've had bad experiences with ford, but i have at least a few friends that will ONLY buy Ford and have for years with zero problems.

I'm not going to go up to someone with a Ford and tell them how awful the company is. But if they ask me why I got rid of my Saleen, or my SHO's or my Explorer you can sure as hell bet i'm gonna be brutally honest. Especially when I switched to Mini and BMW how different the customer service has been, even when I do have a problem it gets taken care of. No questions asked. No more going to the dealership with my lawyer...

But then again your local dealer has more to do with the experience of owner a car than anything. My local BMW/MINI/Mercedes/Honda dealer (all at the same location sort of) is fan-freaken tastic. The 2 local Ford dealerships...not so much.

[Inigo Montoya]

Certainly agree on the bad dealer thing. Some places are great and some do not give a #$%*, they know if you leave, someone else will come through the door. makes for bad service throughout the dealer.

[Laminar]

Everyone is going to have different experiences with different companies. I've had bad experiences with ford, but i have at least a few friends that will ONLY buy Ford and have for years with zero problems.

That's the thing about bell curves - there are people at both ends, and they'll often try and project their experiences at one end of the curve onto everyone else.

Now it's also clear that some auto companies' curves are shifted more towards the "problem" end of the spectrum, as was the case with most American cars up until the last 5 years or so. However, this stigma is hard to shake and once it's in everyone's heads that Japanese, Korean, or German cars are more reliable, efficient, etc., the damage done is almost irreparable. Ford has released several winners with the new Mustang, Fusion, and Taurus for 2010 and the Fiesta in 2011. They seem to be in the best position of any of the big three, especially since they didn't have to take any bailout money.

I'm just hoping the economy improves and no one else has to cut jobs, no matter the company or country of origin.