Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.

[Sam Green Racing]

Just over 12 months ago I was arranging to visit relatives in the USA,
While talking about it on the forums I was offered a ride on a street ET bracket bike, a CBR600F3 belonging to member Mark (dusterdude) in the Street ET Nationals at Piedmont, NC.
Although I didn't fair to well, I really enjoyed the experience and looked at doing it again one day on a bike of my own.
I had been following the exploits of CB750 auto racer Chad Isley on Dragbike.com and decided that if I were to build a bike, the CB750A was the way to go.
In March of this year, such a bike came up for sale in Tampa FL. It was in full dresser trim but looked a good bike for the money being asked.
I asked on this forum, were any members in the area that could help me. Siter81 Ed and peterbylt Peter jumped in with both feet to help.
Within a few days, the deal was done and the guys looked after the bike until I could pick it up.
In the meantime, ace tuner and very good friend Mike Rieck set about collecting the go faster goodies that would be required to turn this docile tourer into a handy bracket racer.
Also on the scene, Jon Weeks who I met on Dragbike.com, a dragracing Honda auto specialist started looking for a particular set of carbs that would help the auto breath well. Jon also started to prepare a special torque converter that allows the bike to be wound up on the line while holding on the back brake to stop the bike creeping forward into the staging lights.
On the 11th November I flew to the US (well I sure as hell wasn't going to swim ) and met up with Peter and Ed. The next morning saw Peter and myself heading out of Tampa, bound for the AMA national finals in Valdosta. The idea was to run the bike as it was in full dresser trim, just to give us an idea of the bikes before and after times.
Although the bike had a slight missfire, it managed to return 18.245 over the quarter, I thought it would be quicker (around 16s) but the slight miss held it back a little.
I thanked Peter for his help and said our goodbyes, Peter headed back down to Tampa while I tried to find transport to get the bike up to Boston for it's make over.
Finding a van that I could hire one way proved impossible and I turned to the nearest forum member who I knew had transport. Enter Bellcow54, Bill Benton of Bent-on Racing in Atlanta. After working all day, Bill drove about 470 miles round trip to pick up my sorry a$$ and the Honda auto (what a guy  ).
After spending a few days with Bill and his wife Pat, the time had come to jump on a plane and head north to Boston but not before Bill and I had talked some serious business.
Bent-on racing and Sam Green Racing decided to join forces to race the auto when it's transformation is completed and with that we said our fairwells.
I'm now at Mikes in Boston and was real pleased with the goodies that mike had in store for me.
Super light JE forged 836 pistons, Megacycle cam, and M3 tensioner and next weekend I'll get to meet Jon Weeks with the auto tuning goodies.
When the bike arrives, I'll strip off as much as I can to save Mike's time on the bike and that about takes me up to this post.
That's it for now until we post some pics, thanks for listening.

Sam.


 

[MRieck]

What we call "A good start".

[dusterdude]

sam,thanks for the link on this thread,it is rather interesting.ill try to keep up with it.good luck

[Sam Green Racing]

All will be revealed after next weekend in respect of what I am putting in the place they would go.
I'm not teasing by making you wait, I just don't know what my auto guru is bringing next Saturday, all I know is they are 36mm.
However, I don't think the Street ET rules would exclude injection systems.

Sam.

this is where it all started, the ill fated 2009 tour.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50847.0

[von_Wanderlust]

Hey Sam,

Just a quick thank you for sharing this project here. Us poor little fellows have the chance to live vicariously through this thread. 

Cheers,
vW

[Sam Green Racing]

RC box section swing arm has arrived, as has the like new rear tail light assembly, both very light.
The swing arm has three positions for both axle and rear dampers. , might need a bit of work though but nothing Mike can't fix.
Thanks Mr bellcow, Bill Benton.
The rear tail light was suplied by Old scambler Dennis and came from a CL72/77, much lighter than the 750 auto unit.

Sam.

[dragracer]

Hey Sam,

I forgot i was already a member of this forum until you encouraged me to join it in your email from today. Just finished reading up on your new project. Lots of good ideas floating about on turning into a full out street  ET bike.

One thing i wanted to mention on a set of carbs is the use of Mikuni  flatslides. I used a set of 36mm on my 750F SOHC. I would have used the 34mm but they were out of stock at the time and being the dragracer that i am, my coefficient of patience decreased exponentially as the race i wanted to attend got closer. I bought them new but of course they didn't just slip on. The spacing is actually for a FJ1100 Yammie/Kaw 900 Ninja(85-87 i think). I offset ground the stock Honda boots to fit the spigot spacing. With some time and patience using  a die grinder, the spacing worked out very well. I used a heat gun the first time to soften up the boots and the carbs slipped right on. I would think since you'll be increasing the stall on the converter, you could easily launch the bike without bogging it down even.

 For ignition, i also use a Dyna S plate with an MSD ignition(MC3). The beauty of the MSD versus Dyna 2000 is if the ignition fails, you can bypass the MSD and still keep racing.  If the Dyna goes out, you're screwed. I've got MC3's on both my Honda and Kaw super comp bike and never had an ounce of trouble from either. The one on the Honda was bought used 10 years ago. I use a V&H sidewinder from a CB1100F on the 750 SOHC. The pipe fits perfectly although it hangs a bit lower than the frame. It won't be an issue. My bike likely sits a lot lower than yours will and it still meets the minimum ground clearance requirements.

I still need a set of side covers for another 750F SOHC SS project. If  anyone reading this has a set please PM me.

[Sam Green Racing]

Hey Sam,

I forgot i was already a member of this forum until you encouraged me to join it in your email from today. Just finished reading up on your new project. Lots of good ideas floating about on turning into a full out street  ET bike.

One thing i wanted to mention on a set of carbs is the use of Mikuni  flatslides. I used a set of 36mm on my 750F SOHC. I would have used the 34mm but they were out of stock at the time and being the dragracer that i am, my coefficient of patience decreased exponentially as the race i wanted to attend got closer. I bought them new but of course they didn't just slip on. The spacing is actually for a FJ1100 Yammie/Kaw 900 Ninja(85-87 i think). I offset ground the stock Honda boots to fit the spigot spacing. With some time and patience using  a die grinder, the spacing worked out very well. I used a heat gun the first time to soften up the boots and the carbs slipped right on. I would think since you'll be increasing the stall on the converter, you could easily launch the bike without bogging it down even.

 For ignition, i also use a Dyna S plate with an MSD ignition(MC3). The beauty of the MSD versus Dyna 2000 is if the ignition fails, you can bypass the MSD and still keep racing.  If the Dyna goes out, you're screwed. I've got MC3's on both my Honda and Kaw super comp bike and never had an ounce of trouble from either. The one on the Honda was bought used 10 years ago. I use a V&H sidewinder from a CB1100F on the 750 SOHC. The pipe fits perfectly although it hangs a bit lower than the frame. It won't be an issue. My bike likely sits a lot lower than yours will and it still meets the minimum ground clearance requirements.

I still need a set of side covers for another 750F SOHC SS project. If  anyone reading this has a set please PM me.

Hi Frank, great to see you made it onto here, Chad Isley (3303) is allready here and Jon (Hodamatic) might be joining us.
Jon made the trip down to Boston from Maine to bring me some goodies for my auto, a modified torque converter and a set if modified 34mm Mikuni CV carbs from a Gixer. These are parts that have been tried and tested on his own bikes and should do the business.
I think I'll be going with the Dyna ignition that can have the ignition curve programed in as the auto needs advance low down and retard higher up the rev range.
I think you will find a set of side covers on here, but if not, I've been told a guy in England makes repro ones that are better than the stock ones (strengthened where the tabs normally break off). I don't know the cost but I'll find out for you.
For others, Frank is a real nice dude, myself, Rocking-M and Dusterdude met him and his good lady wife at Piedmont last year when I raced there, took him 13 months to get here

Nice having you here Frank and regards to that fast girl of yours.

Sam.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Sam,

Looks like your holiday is about over. I know that sucks but sounds like the turn of events was a great detour. Hell, just get a job here and stay.....

Please tell us how you are managing to run those big ass carbs before I spend some good money on the CR31's???

[Sam Green Racing]

It's an auto thing Jerry, 34mm wouldn't be my choice, I'm doing as I'm told by people that know, ya never to old to learn.

Sam.

[dusterdude]

frank,glad you`re on here,sam gave me a heads up on that.i was with sam and rob(you know,the dude with the bum leg)last year at piedmont.it was good meeting you and i know you will provide valuable insight on this forum.ya`ll take care and have a good christmas.

[dragracer]

Hello again Sam, good to hear for you Rockin M, whats going on Mark???


Hopefully the 4 of us will cross paths at one the next years AMA Dragbike races. I haven't been on my Honda much lately but always enjoy it when i make a pass down the 660 or 1320.

Rockin M, i'll keep an eye out of a K1 for you.

Sam, it sounds like this year long project is on a fast track. You've gotten a lot of the big parts lined up so i'm sure this project will be ready long before you've scheduled.

Off to bed now,
Catch you guys later.

Hey Sam,

I forgot i was already a member of this forum until you encouraged me to join it in your email from today. Just finished reading up on your new project. Lots of good ideas floating about on turning into a full out street  ET bike.

One thing i wanted to mention on a set of carbs is the use of Mikuni  flatslides. I used a set of 36mm on my 750F SOHC. I would have used the 34mm but they were out of stock at the time and being the dragracer that i am, my coefficient of patience decreased exponentially as the race i wanted to attend got closer. I bought them new but of course they didn't just slip on. The spacing is actually for a FJ1100 Yammie/Kaw 900 Ninja(85-87 i think). I offset ground the stock Honda boots to fit the spigot spacing. With some time and patience using  a die grinder, the spacing worked out very well. I used a heat gun the first time to soften up the boots and the carbs slipped right on. I would think since you'll be increasing the stall on the converter, you could easily launch the bike without bogging it down even.

 For ignition, i also use a Dyna S plate with an MSD ignition(MC3). The beauty of the MSD versus Dyna 2000 is if the ignition fails, you can bypass the MSD and still keep racing.  If the Dyna goes out, you're screwed. I've got MC3's on both my Honda and Kaw super comp bike and never had an ounce of trouble from either. The one on the Honda was bought used 10 years ago. I use a V&H sidewinder from a CB1100F on the 750 SOHC. The pipe fits perfectly although it hangs a bit lower than the frame. It won't be an issue. My bike likely sits a lot lower than yours will and it still meets the minimum ground clearance requirements.

I still need a set of side covers for another 750F SOHC SS project. If  anyone reading this has a set please PM me.

Hi Frank, great to see you made it onto here, Chad Isley (3303) is allready here and Jon (Hodamatic) might be joining us.
Jon made the trip down to Boston from Maine to bring me some goodies for my auto, a modified torque converter and a set if modified 34mm Mikuni CV carbs from a Gixer. These are parts that have been tried and tested on his own bikes and should do the business.
I think I'll be going with the Dyna ignition that can have the ignition curve programed in as the auto needs advance low down and retard higher up the rev range.
I think you will find a set of side covers on here, but if not, I've been told a guy in England makes repro ones that are better than the stock ones (strengthened where the tabs normally break off). I don't know the cost but I'll find out for you.
For others, Frank is a real nice dude, myself, Rocking-M and Dusterdude met him and his good lady wife at Piedmont last year when I raced there, took him 13 months to get here

Nice having you here Frank and regards to that fast girl of you'res.

Sam.

[Sam Green Racing]

Hi Frank, I hear what you're saying about Mark ? ??, It's hard work getting him to post these days but we keep him imformed.
The bike may be ready before I can get back (a lot going on at work, not sure what job I'm returning to)  but I doubt I'll be back before the last Valdosta. If it is ready and I'm sure it will be, we have a test rider that will put it through it's paces before transporting it south to Atlanta.
We hope to do about 4 AMA races a year after that, myself in Street ET and my team mate Bill Benton in Pro ET, Bill may also do a few local events. We're looking forward to it.

Sam.

[jweeks]

OK, having been referred to enough times, I thought that I should be defending the parts being used in Sam's motor. 34mm CV carbs. Respaced to fit aftermarket manifolds. (why aftermarket? They are more flexible than the stockers for fitting over slightly larger carbs.) If you think that CV carbs are too big, you don't understand how the CV carbs work. With the right needles/jet kit, they are the most flexible that you can run down the dragstrip. I've been bracket racing Hondamatics since 1985. I've run 29mm smoothbores like Chad uses; 31mm smoothbores, 34mm round slides, 32mm CV's and 34mm CV's. I looked into lectrons, but Paul Gast discouraged me. We're not talking street riding here folks. On the starting line, you whack open the throttle when you see the first yellow bulb flash on. You can't do that with smoothbores. They'll cough. Round slides are worse. They can't be tuned for what you want them to do. Properly set up CV carbs can be whacked open when in gear without flooding out the spark plugs. You can release the back brake when on the starting line in high gear and the bike will just pull smoothly up to top end. I imagine that fuel injection could also work, but it would take a lot of development time. No Sam won't race quarter mile running only high gear, but it will show you just how flexible (or not) that your carbs are. 29mm smoothbores are nice on the street. Good response and pulls great in the lower rpm ranges. The carb size does limit the top end potential of the motor. (Air in- air out) If we were racing shorter distances, smaller carbs might be a better overall choice. Sam's looking at triple digit speeds in the quarter mile. That's where the larger carbs give you the stronger top end. My Hondamatic drag bike runs 10's in the quarter at 124 mph with its current gearing. It's a 1180 cc motor that runs 34mm CV carbs. There is a limit to how big a carb you can use with the 750K head. Sam is getting a good porting job that will take maximum advantage of the fuel/air being put into it. My 1180 motor uses the F head with excellent port work.
     I think that Sam's rods are too expensive for his goals, but the euro/dollar exchange rate must be pretty good... Aftermarket steel rods are less than half the cost of what he's using. The bottom end will be plenty strong. Is there nitrous in it's future? (Not an endorsement of nitrous on a Hondamatic) The converter would have to be far different than it will be for his motor. Leaving the line at twice the stock converter stall rpm really helps it get moving. If he were keeping the fairing/saddlebags, I'd prefer he keep it going slower, to better allow all the cameras to take his picture going slowly down the track.....
     Sorry if I'm short on the witty writing side. I do have a sense of humor - I drove 2.5 hours down to meet Sam, traded stories for a few hours, and drove back north 2.5 hours in the Saturday snow fall. You got to love this to be that crazy!

                                          Jon Weeks   

[Sam Green Racing]

Mr Hondamatic, welcome to the forum Jon and thanks for the info on the parts.
The parts stash is building nicely and was added to tonight with the arrival of a V&H sidewinder pro drag pipe, $236 delivered from CycleX.
Mike was going to post a picture of it but went to bed early with a bad cold.
Glad you made it home safe in the snow, it ended up about 7" by morning not used to this sort of stuff 

Sam.

[dragracer]

The CV carbs are a great choice with Sams setup. Since they operate off engine vacuum, even if the motor wants to lug a bit  off the line the carbs will adjust and not cause a bog. My flatslides work great on the hand clutch but the rpm's have to be in a specific band to keep from bogging the motor. Yep, a smaller set of carbs would work better but i love the top end from the 36's. I have cut some low 1.40 , 60' times on the bike when i race it regularly. Considering i have no wheelie bar and don't use the  two step on my MSD box thats not a bad launch for a heavy old school bike.

I like the way you guys have thought out this build. Continue with the good work and please keep us posted on the parts you use to get this beast together. 

[Grnrngr]

I'm definitely enjoying it as well. Just picked up a stock '77 750A that's too pretty to "fix", but the guy has an extra 750A motor, and this other guy has an F parts bike just sitting around he said he'd trade for an Xbox 360...and there's a drag strip not to far from here..heh..heart rates pickin up just thinkin about it.

[dragracer]

I'm definitely enjoying it as well. Just picked up a stock '77 750A that's too pretty to "fix", but the guy has an extra 750A motor, and this other guy has an F parts bike just sitting around he said he'd trade for an Xbox 360...and there's a drag strip not to far from here..heh..heart rates pickin up just thinkin about it.

Hmm, i say go for it my man. Nothing like the smell of race gas, burning rubber and freshly sprayed VHT to get you hooked for life. Caution, there is no rehab for dragracing.

[1080]

Nice to hear from other racers( Jweeks & dragracer) that got some descent 1/4 mile times.

I only got to the low 11's with my Amen 1080 RC Honda.

I ran a Jerry branch head, small lift kenny Harman cam. Steel RC rods. Stock crank, Lighten alternator rotor, and Kaw 1000 carbs.

My 60 footers where in the 1.6's.

How about some pictures.

[Sam Green Racing]

The CV carbs are a great choice with Sams setup. Since they operate off engine vacuum, even if the motor wants to lug a bit  off the line the carbs will adjust and not cause a bog.
I like the way you guys have thought out this build. Continue with the good work and please keep us posted on the parts you use to get this beast together. 

Thanks Frank, it was partly down to you that I decided to start on this project.
When I first built the bike in my avatar for Ben's dad, it was to run in classic/vintage sprints and drags.
It wasn't until I saw your bike that I realised that the SOHC750 could still be competitive in open class racing/bracket racing.
I had been keeping an eye on the exploits of Chad Isley and how the Hondamatics gave the modern stuff a real good run for the money.
About this time last year, I told Mike (MRieck) my plans and he started to locate the go faster parts that would be needed.
As well as being a damn fine porter and builder, Mike knew a guy named Ric Stetson who was a top runner on SOHCs in their heyday.
Ric is one of Mikes machinist and they recently got talking about automatics as Ric had been asked to build one for one of his customers.
Mike mentioned that he was going to be building one for me and told Ric that I knew a guy that was top dog when it came to Hondamatics.
I told Ric this when I met him at the AMA Drag Bike finals at Valdosta, It turned out that Ric knew the same guy Mr Jon Weeks (Mr Hondamatic)
Last Saturday, Mike had arranged a party for me to meet the New England forum members and some of his good friends.
Jon had arranged to deliver some special parts for the auto so tying it in with the party seemed a good idea.
Jon turned up after several hours driving dead on cue at 10am and we took him to rekindle his friendship with Ric who he had not seen for several years.
Also at the party was a guy named Zint who is a wizard at balancing cranks and rods.
With these guys around me, my dreams of racing a 36 year old SOHC Honda on some of the best strips in the world are becoming much more of a reality.
Thanks guys, watch out for team Bent on Racing in the next few years.

Sam.

[dragracer]

The CV carbs are a great choice with Sams setup. Since they operate off engine vacuum, even if the motor wants to lug a bit  off the line the carbs will adjust and not cause a bog.
I like the way you guys have thought out this build. Continue with the good work and please keep us posted on the parts you use to get this beast together.  

Thanks Frank, it was partly down to you that I decided to start on this project.
When I first built the bike in my avatar for Ben's dad, it was to run in classic/vintage sprints and drags.
It wasn't until I saw your bike that I realised that the SOHC750 could still be competitive in open class racing/bracket racing.
I had been keeping an eye on the exploits of Chad Isley and how the Hondamatics gave the modern stuff a real good run for the money.
About this time last year, I told Mike (MRieck) my plans and he started to locate the go faster parts that would be needed.
As well as being a damn fine porter and builder, Mike knew a guy named Ric Stetson who was a top runner on SOHCs in their heyday.
Ric is one of Mikes machinist and they recently got talking about automatics as Ric had been asked to build one for one of his customers.
Mike mentioned that he was going to be building one for me and told Ric that I knew a guy that was top dog when it came to Hondamatics.
I told Ric this when I met him at the AMA Drag Bike finals at Valdosta, It turned out that Ric knew the same guy Mr Jon Weeks (Mr Hondamatic)
Last Saturday, Mike had arranged a party for me to meet the New England forum members and some of his good friends.
Jon had arranged to deliver some special parts for the auto so tying it in with the party seemed a good idea.
Jon turned up after several hours driving dead on cue at 10am and we took him to rekindle his friendship with Ric who he had not seen for several years.
Also at the party was a guy named Zint who is a wizard at balancing cranks and rods.
With these guys around me, my dreams of racing a 36 year old SOHC Honda on some of the best strips in the world are becoming much more of a reality.
Thanks guys, watch out for team Bent on Racing in the next few years.

Sam.

Sam,

Glad i had some influence on your decision. The choice to do an auto is a good one for consistency sake especially in street ET. You've now surrounded yourself with some of the best machinist and mechanics for the SOHC motors and i truly envy your connections. This bike is going to be awesome and i look forward to seeing it go down the 1320 next year.

Although our bikes are old, they deliver lots of fun for the money. I think i've gotten more stares  and questions about my old Honda than any other dragbike i own.  After i got all the bugs out and learned how to ride the bike, i went on to win enough races to pay for the initial build. Even now with all the other bikes i have to choose from to race, the Honda is still my "go to" bike.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Oh,so it's you my wife can blame(Sam you're of the hook  ),well one big Thank You,It's shaping up to be big fun!How about more info on your bike and more and larger pictures.Welcome aboard,this is one fun forum.Good Luck on next season and thanks again.Bill 

[Sam Green Racing]

Hey Frank, Bellcow54, Billy is the second rider, he's going to ride in Pro ET, but only when he's found some white leathers.

Bill, Frank's not all he's cracked up to be....once told me he'd been beaten by a girl   sorry Frank

Sam.

[dragracer]

Hey Frank, Bellcow54, Billy is the second rider, he's going to ride in Pro ET, but only when he's found some white leathers.

Bill, Frank's not all he's cracked up to be....once told me he'd been beaten by a girl   sorry Frank

Sam.

Yes, i admit it, i was beat by a girl. Actually it was my wife on her GSXR 1100 that whipped me. Just remember this though: happy wife, happy home.

[Sam Green Racing]

I like a well organised race team. Get the priorities in the right order.

Sam.