Topic: Sandcast Restoration - Done (for now)

[Honda?]

Damn dude if I rebuilt a motorcycle with that much attention to detail I would probably put it in m living room under a glass case and never move it.

Btw I seriously did a double take on your before pictures after I read your thread said "restoration".  I could not see anything to restore!

[markb]

Thanks guys. 
Honda?, you're right, it wasn't bad but it will be better now.  And I will ride it but only when its perfect out.

Anyway, last night I got to thinking about my torque wrench.  I commented earlier that it was good I had a torque wrench or I would be overtightening.  So what if my wrench is off?  I decided to check it.  Easy to do, I first put a bolt in plate and clamped it in a vice.  Then I set the wrench to 264 in.-lbs. (22 ft.-lbs.) and put a scale on the handle and slowly pulled until the wrench clicked and noted the force.  I did it a couple of times to get an average.  Most of you probably know this but then its just a simple calculation: Torque = Force x Distance.  I measured 22.5 lbs and the distance from the center of the bolt to the scale was 11.75".  22.5 x 11.75 = 264.375 in.-lbs.  If you want your answer in ft.-lbs., just divide by 12.  Wow, that's close enough for me.  I also tried it at 120 in.-lbs. and measured at 115 in.-lbs.  So at the lower settings it is off a little.  The torque recommendations are usually a range and I shoot for the middle so I am plenty good.  I feel better now.  A little anal, I know.  Here's how I did it.

[Johnie]

Mark...let me know when the house next door goes up for sale. I want to move in there...

[markb]

OK, then when I need a hand putting a motor in a frame...

Since I'm comfortable with my torque wrench now and know the lower end is good I'm ready to put on the jugs and head.  First thing I found out is its hard to put the base gasket on with the hose clamps on the pistons.  So three steps forward, two steps back on that one.  I put some 1" thick blocks under #2 & 3 pistons to hold them staight.


I put another tall block under the cylinder so I could set it in place and fish through my wire for the cam chain and set the tensioner in the hole.


Center pistons went right in.  After that not so good.  I didn't see a good way to hold the outer pistons straight.  Last time I did this was 2 years ago and its a little fuzzy.  So what I did was turn the crank to move the center ones down and the outer ones up and then wiggle and push on the pistons until I finally got it.  The hose clamps were a bit of a problem too.  They were pretty wide right by the screw and that hit the sleeve first and would push that side down first.  I think I used different clamps last time.


I should have take a few more photos but here it is with the head on.  I installed the Honda Serice Bulletin #42 gasket and o-rings.  I'm going to let it sit over night and then retorque it tomorrow.  It's getting there.

[bgfootball67]

Nice work!  Can't wait to see the finished project..

[rebabal]

Very impressive!

I took the head/jug/pistons out of my K6 today and can't wait to get more into it.

[naguethey]

Super impressed. Great photos and follow along.

[markb]

I appreciate the support.

I'm ready to do the cam.  First I have to replace the 6mm studs for the cam holders.  The hole for them actually goes through and is a potential area for oil leaking around the spark plugs.  I think my #1 spark plug area was leaking.  My goal is no leaks so I use thread sealer when I reinstall them.  The short thread goes in the head and I retorque them to 45 in.-lbs. and they should stick out 45mm.  You can see my stud installtion tool in the photo.


First thing is to remember the 4 knock pins, 6 sealing rubbers and 4 little bitty o-rings that go under the cam holders.  I'm careful not to disrupt them while I'm placing the holders.  I put the two bolts in the center of the holder just to help hold them in place while I'm putting in the camshaft.  You'll have to pull them out later to install the rocker arms.  Its interesting that there's 4 of those o-rings as 2 of them go into a counterbore that doesn't go anywhere.  Maybe to distribute the load on the holders?  I don't know but I always put them in.  


The valve train is all back together.  I was going to put the valve cover on but I decided to break for the day and tackle adjusting the valve clearance next time.  Its easier without the cover on.  Might as well take advantage of it.

[MCRider]

YEs, very nice! I've got to jump in here so I'll be "subscribed".

The Orings on the outboard ends of the cam towers serve as the ending to the oil path. Oil comes upthe in board passages, is distributed thru the holes in the cam towers, and then ends at the outboard ORing. If they weren' there that pathway couldn't maintain its pressure.

[markb]

Thanks MCRider.  That makes sense.  If I would have looked at the oiling diagram I probably could have figured that out.  I knew they had to be there for a reason.

[markb]

So I went to intall the cam chain tensioner before I set my valves and I've got a problem.  One of the threaded holes is stripped.  Two of the mounting screws torqued down fine but the third one never got close.  I'm glad I checked my torque wrench so I know I didn't over tighten it.  That might explain why the PO had gobs of gasket sealer on it.  It was practically glued on.  In retrospect, that should have been a red flag.  I checked that hole and it seem to be slightly shorter than the other two.  My guess is the screw bottomed out and wasn't really tight and it leaked and was over tightened and stripped the threads.  Dammit!  I guess my only option is to helicoil it.  Any other suggestions?  If I go with a helicoil should I use the kind with a tang or without?  How long?

[MCRider]

So I went to intall the cam chain tensioner before I set my valves and I've got a problem.  One of the threaded holes is stripped.  Two of the mounting screws torqued down fine but the third one never got close.  I'm glad I checked my torque wrench so I know I didn't over tighten it.  That might explain why the PO had gobs of gasket sealer on it.  It was practically glued on.  In retrospect, that should have been a red flag.  I checked that hole and it seem to be slightly shorter than the other two.  My guess is the screw bottomed out and wasn't really tight and it leaked and was over tightened and stripped the threads.  Dammit!  I guess my only option is to helicoil it.  Any other suggestions?    

If you've got enough meat, helicoil it. If not, get a 1/4-20 SAE tap, tap it out and run a 1/4 -20 bolt in. No one will ever know, it'll last forever and is an absolute for sure fix, in this situation.

Many have even run the 1/4-20 in without tapping, its real close. But tapping would be much more elegant.

[markb]

Can I run the 1/4-20 tap in without tap drilling first?  I just checked and its one of the bottom two and there's not enough room to get a drill in there.  I may have to pull the jugs.  If I do will I have to replace the cylinder base gasket and head gasket?  I just intalled them yesterday.

[MCRider]

Can I run the 1/4-20 tap in without tap drilling first?  I just checked and its one of the bottom two and there's not enough room to get a drill in there.  I may have to pull the jugs.  If I do will I have to replace the cylinder base gasket and head gasket?  I just intalled them yesterday.

I'm pretty sure yes you don't have to drill. First check that a 1/4-20 bolt will pass thru the hole in the tensioner. usually uses a 7/16th socket or an 11mm, same diff.  PRactice on something if you can. A 6mm nut in a vice if no old engines around.

Its been a while. But at one time I had all my cam tower bolts as 1/4-20s. They are only slightly more diameter than a 6mm and slightly coarser thread.

The standard T handle on the tap likely won't work, same clearance problem as the drill, you'll have to use a 3/8 ratchet with a tap holder.

If you pull the jugs, its a new head cheeze and base gasket for sure, IMO Or you're taking a chance...which others have taken and survived, I'm just saying...

If you can get a 1/4-20 bolt to catch about 3 revolutions, with or without the tap, I'd bet money it will seal. 4 to 6 would be better, 8 revs is standard. But there is so little pressure on that tensioner, 2 good 6mm and a lame third hole ought to do it.

So check it out and ... don't blame me. Sorry for your pain. Been there.

[markb]

Thanks for the advice.  I'm definately thinking about it.  The tap wrench wouldn't be a problem because the handle can be pushed to the end.  My biggest hangup is I'm trying to do a meticulous restore and that solution doesn't seem to fit the parameters.  But where do you draw the line.  I agree on the gaskets, how about the o-rings and rubber pucks?

[MCRider]

Thanks for the advice.  I'm definately thinking about it.  The tap wrench wouldn't be a problem because the handle can be pushed to the end.  My biggest hangup is I'm trying to do a meticulous restore and that solution doesn't seem to fit the parameters.  But where do you draw the line.  I agree on the gaskets, how about the o-rings and rubber pucks?

I know what you're saying, Try a longer 6mm bolt. Maybe there's some threads down in the bottom of the hole that will hold.  Use a real long one first and if you detect some threads, cut it off to the exact size needed.

If you go the 1/4-20 route, I won't tell. There are some things that have gone awry with my project I'm not telling either.     Every masterpiece has a secret flaw.

If you go the helicoil route, I'd think the rubber bits are reusable. Ask around.

[markb]

I already tried the longer bolt, as long as would fit.  It wouldn't grab.  You're right, even this build already has flaws.  If it wasn't a sandcast it's a no brainer.  I know what I think of some PO's fixes and I know I shouldn't care but I can imagine what someone would be saying about this.  I'm not ignoring you're suggestions, it helps to kick it around.  I posted a separate thread on this and maybe I'll get some other ideas.  I think I'll sleep on it for now.  Thanks.

[MCRider]

I already tried the longer bolt, as long as would fit.  It wouldn't grab.  You're right, even this build already has flaws.  If it wasn't a sandcast it's a no brainer.  I know what I think of some PO's fixes and I know I shouldn't care but I can imagine what someone would be saying about this.  I'm not ignoring you're suggestions, it helps to kick it around.  I posted a separate thread on this and maybe I'll get some other ideas.  I think I'll sleep on it for now.  Thanks.

Unnerstood, Ah feel yo payne.

[traveler]

the right thing to do is pull the jugs and re-tap the hole for the original bolt.

If it was my bike, I'd do the 1/4X20 bolt though.

~Joe

[markb]

I checked out the hole and the threads went in 10mm and the hole was 16mm deep.  So I decided if I could find a bottom tape and get maybe 5mm more thread and use a longer bolt I'd be good.  But when I checked the shop for a tap I found we had a helicoil kit so I decided to try it.  First I draped everthing so I wouldn't get chips where I didn't want them.  I felt like a surgeon.


I was going to drill it by hand but a checked and the drill just laid perpendicular to the hole.  It helped that the tensioner angles upwards.  It helped me guide it actually.


Here's the long handled tap wrench one of the guys had.  This is what I was going to use to hand drill the hole.  It stuck out past the end of the case so tapping was no problem.


Here's the insertion tool.


Last step is to break off the tang.


And here's the tensioner in place!  It torqued down fine.  All together it took less than half an hour and five minutes of that was standing there holding the drill wondering if I should really do it.  Sometime the dog bites you, and sometimes you bite the dog!  It helped to get suggestions and step back and think about it.  Thanks guys.  

[MCRider]

Great!

[traveler]

I agree.....all is well....time to move forward.

~Joe

[markb]

The motor is finally ready to put in the frame.


Here's my version of the engine hook.  I think I've used every method there is, the milk crate, laying the motor on its side and lowering the frame on, and there's no doubt the hook is the easiest.  Especially if you don't have anything on the frame you can lift and push it around to help get the motor in.


I use ratchet straps to hold the engine.  Use plenty of padding on the hook and the frame.  Here's a shot from the right side...


...and the left side.


Kinda scary at this point.


She's in place.  I really took my time, probably 45 minutes to inch it into place.


All done.  And I don't think I got a single nick or scratch.  Woohoo!  

[blake255]

Nice C-hook Mark!

[Johnie]

Cool...real nice Mark. Great pics and thread. You are probably already going to do this, but I would rap a lot of the frame in protection so if you drop a wrench or something you do not scratch that nice frame paint. Maybe even want to keep a towel on the top of the engine too. It sure looks great in the frame.