Author Topic: Time to Settle up  (Read 4221 times)

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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2010, 10:03:47 AM »
OK, I gotta take the unpopular stance here, basicly you renigged on a contract, you spent money you did not have, in effect you borrowed and did not pay back, you stole. Would everyone here be OK if he had borrowed thousands of dollars from a forum member and then said he will only pay you back .33 cents on the dollar? What if he agreed to sell you 4 pistons for a certain price and then only shipped one? I have seen how rough we are on sellers that take to long to ship or don't ship at all; double standards people. Although I do not know the whole story (job loss, medical) the comment that he would rather buy a new guitar rather than pay his obligations tells me how he may have ended up in this situation.

How about this, what if everyone went to get their paycheck and it was only 1/3 of what you thought it should be, would we all be sitting around telling your company, good job; good for you company for not having to pay all the money that was owed to people who we agreed to pay? Don't spend money that you can't pay back, pay back your obligations, and you're right, your credit is f***ed for quite some time.

(stepping off soapbox, donning flamesuit)


As someone who is very responsible with my money, I agree with you.  I personally sacrifice in certain areas so I can prosper in others.  It bugs me to see people who can't delay pleasure and then get themselves in financial trouble.  The 'gotta have it, and gotta have it now!' attitude.  Then they complain that they don't have money and act like somehow it's not their fault.   ::)

I believe it's almost always the case that people's financial troubles are their own fault, either by immature spending habits, or lack of foresight.  We have to expect to lose jobs and expect economic recessions and expect health issues and expect car accidents, and prepare for all that the best we can.  And for the folks that can always find the money to eat out, and buy toys, yet can never find the money to pay bills, I have little sympathy for them.

I'm not judging Burke or anyone in particular, just sayin'.

It's not rocket science.  Just quit buying so much "stuff."


Right now I bet someone is reading this and saying, "But you only live once.  Live for today!"  For those folks, I hope you like being in debt.


Oh, and on general principle, I agree that it's bad for the credit card companies (or anyone else) to have to settle for 30 cents on the dollar.  But then I remind myself that it's a credit card company.  Karma's a #$%* sometimes.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2010, 10:51:41 AM »
Nowadays, some form of credit is inevitable, particularly for a first home. Anyone who boasts that they've owned their own home since they were in their 20's isn't being entirely honest, IMHO. There's only a few ways you get that kinda cash so young, either you sell drugs, you're in the Mafia, you just won the lottery, or most likely, Mommy and Daddy bought it for you, in which case, you didn't earn it, you just accepted it, like Burke did with his credit card.

A co-worker of mine was holding court one day telling the guys how stupid they all were still paying off a mortgage when they were in their 40's, and how they should have been like him, paying cash for their houses, when a guy who had known him from their school days reminded him that his parents gave him the cash to buy his house with, because he was spending all his money on souped up cars and they wanted him out of their home! What a tool................

The best advice that comes thru in this thread and others, is that everything should be taken in moderation. Don't try to buy the biggest house, or the fanciest car, and don't spend all your money on toys, just live within your means and enjoy what you've got. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2010, 11:56:45 AM »
Nowadays, some form of credit is inevitable, particularly for a first home. Anyone who boasts that they've owned their own home since they were in their 20's isn't being entirely honest, IMHO. There's only a few ways you get that kinda cash so young, either you sell drugs, you're in the Mafia, you just won the lottery, or most likely, Mommy and Daddy bought it for you, in which case, you didn't earn it, you just accepted it, like Burke did with his credit card.

Actually, you save that kind of money by not buying drugs.   :P

I worked 8 years (55+ hours a week) in tool and die and saved up enough money to pay cash for the house.  I paid $62k for it.  If I had gotten a mortgage, I would have paid more than double for my house.  I was 25.  In fact, I saved enough to additionally put myself through college.  Then graduate school.  Plus buy a Jeep.  My parents brag that they didn't have to pay anything for me or my sister.  My father was a boilerman and tried to be a farmer, and my mother drove a school bus.  Not exactly rolling in money.   

The most I ever made in a year was $45k.  For the past several years I made less than $20k (graduate student stipend).

So how did I do it? 
I had a pretty decent job as a tool and die maker while all my friends seemed to seek out grocery-bagger type jobs.  I lived at home until I was 22 (thanks Mom and Dad).  The two places I rented were cheap places.  I don't buy that many things.  I don't waste anything.  I didn't buy the fanciest house I could find.  I didn't buy a new car every two years.  I don't go out to eat that much.  I never went to one of those pay-day loan places.  I attended a community college because it was cheap.  Then I went to the next cheapest 4-year college that was local.  Then I got into a prestigious school for graduate studies, but they pay you for physics graduate study.  Of course, the sacrifice I had to make to do this stuff debt free was that I was an older student than the rest. 

I had an ex wife that was trying her best to drag me down.  She had the attitude like most people have - that it's "normal" to be in debt (sadly, that's probably true...).  That it's impossible not to be in debt.  And she wasted her money.  $600 phone bills were "okay" for her.  I'll never understand it.  She talked me into a home equity loan for her to buy a $15k car (stupid me!).  I had to make several of her car payments after the divorce.  I had 3 or 4 letters threatening to foreclose on my house because of that damn loan.  And once she spent the property tax money on who-knows-what and they were going to take my property for that.  I had to take $3000 out of an IRA to bail her out once (huge tax penalty for that!).  It was one thing after another with her.  There was even a warrant out for her arrest.  The cops came to my door looking for her after we had separated.  Yeah, it was bad.  But hey!, that's "normal," right?   ::)

Without giving my life story (or just did I?  :D), I've been able to avoid getting into financial trouble.  People have been telling me for a long time that it's not possible.  Whatever.

You don't need credit.  It's a lie.  You don't need to live in a mansion.  And playing the lottery is a good way to lose money. 

You'd be amazed how easy it is to save money when you don't have to give it to a bank every month.


Why is it so hard for people to think that someone can actually not waste their money?   ::)
But by all means, if you love debt that much, be my guest....   :P


I mention Dave Ramsey every time one of these threads comes up.  Have any of you ever tried to take my advice and listened to his radio show?  If you're able to listen to him, you'll see that I'm not totally full of crap.


The best advice that comes thru in this thread and others, is that everything should be taken in moderation. Don't try to buy the biggest house, or the fanciest car, and don't spend all your money on toys, just live within your means and enjoy what you've got. Cheers, Terry. ;D

That's good advice.   :)
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2010, 03:08:33 PM »
No, not saying that you're full of crap mate, and thanks for sharing your story, very interesting.

Your post gave me pause to remember that every situation is different, and not to just "broad brush" my response, so I'll narrow it down to what I know. Where I live, the average price for a "first home" is around $300K. The "average" salary is around $40K, but for a first home buyer it's probably 5-10K less, due to first home buyers generally being younger, and newer to the work force.

The average kid leaves school at age 18, (if he doesn't go to university, otherwise 22 or 23) so if he's lucky enough to snag a $30K job right away (my university educated honors student son is 25 this year and still earns less than that) and manages to save $20K per year after tax and living expenses by staying home with his folks and freeloading off them, he should be able to pay cash for his new home when he's 33.

Of course, over 15 years, that home will have at least doubled in value (my current house has doubled in value in only 9 years) so he'll need to work for another 15 years, which will make him 48. So for the first 48 years of his life he's lived at home with mom and dad, probably doesn't own a car, has never travelled further than to work and back, more than likely doesn't have a girlfriend, and is getting too old to responsibly procreate, not wanting to make his children orphans at an early age. Great way to spend your life, huh?

I suppose the good thing is that if he does find someone to marry once he's bought his house, and if he only has one child, his kid will have a great start in life, because by the time he's old enough to finish school, he will have inherited his late fathers house........... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2010, 03:46:51 PM »
My neighbor's house is exactly like mine (well, actually it's the mirror image of mine, and I have a garage, he don't).  Anyway, he was very handy with tools.  He was always doing something to that house - new plumbing, new heating system, remodeling, swimming pool, shed, rebuilt a Harley for the wife, yada yada.

One day, all of a sudden, I can see and feel some serious tension between he and his wife (they normally got along pretty well).  Her sister and brother in law came with a truck and was taking all her stuff out.  Loud heavy metal music blaring, foul looks in their faces, my neighbor looked pissed.  I saw the wife come back a few days later, cussing, trying to look through the windows but he purposely pulled the drapes together, and she couldn't get in (he must have changed the locks).

Bam!  Just like that.  The house was foreclosed on.  And he put soooo much work into it.

I don't know what happened, but I'd guess they were playing with some risky stuff (financially speaking) and it bit them in the ass.  I know he didn't lose his job, because he was, and had been on disability for a back problem.  I don't know, but it seems like they got a new car every couple years...  ::)


That house sold for $31k.  Keep in mind that 10 years ago I bought my almost identical house for $62.  It sold for half what mine cost me.  I almost bought it for the hell of it, but I was a few thousand shy of the asking price (and I don't borrow money).

Anyway, the people that got that house got a hell of a deal.  These deals are out there. 


As for my old neighbor, I have no idea what happened.  But he lost his house and all he put into it, and it sure looked like he lost his family too.

I will do everything I can to avoid being in that position.





I know what you're thinking...
Quote
...rebuilt a Harley for the wife....
...that's where the problem started!   ;D
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2010, 06:18:13 PM »
Well my old Regimental Sergeant Major used to say (although I'll re-phrase it to make it sound nicer) "If women didn't have vagina's they'd be stacked 10 high at the dump!" Now those were his words of course, I've been happily married for 28 years to a girl I met when I was 19 and she was 17, all up we've been together for 31 years. Having said that, my brother and two of my three sisters are now divorced, and I've seen the sad results, not that money has been a factor.

Reading your last post I've decided to emigrate. Do me a favor please mate and knock on your new neighbors door and offer them $93K for their place, it sounds nice. Now lets see, that'll leave me around $300K once I sell my place (it's a sellers market here) or around 200 by the time I pay out my mortgage and my evil credit card, I get an Army pension of 400 bucks a week, I've already got a garage full of bikes and machinery, geez, I don't think I'll worry about a job, I might just retire! ;D   
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline seaweb11

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2010, 06:53:49 PM »
 ;D ;D
31K......... 62K for a house.............are you kidding !!!!!!      It costs $31K  just to drill a water well out in the bush where you might afford land.

Yes, in your area saving for a few years could get you a house.   I did check a real estate web site for your area. ;)
   What if, and I'm just saying, you grew up in an area where $46,000.00 would get you a trailer "with lot rental rates", 75,000.00 would get you a double wide "with lot rental rates" , and $250,000 would get you a run down house next to an indian reservation?  Would you leave all your family, friends and job to move to  Berrien County where you could afford a house? 

You are living in a strange "lost world" real estate area. Lucky you ;)
You bought at 62 and now it's 1/2 price.  ???

Location, location, location.

"I get the saving thing"  I had to stop flying, boating, racing, motorcycling, new clothes, travel, eating out for years just to get a downpayment on land.  Then continued saving while living in a tiny cottage for a few years to save enough to build my house.

It would have been very difficult without some credit along the way. 

.......and I have no idea how my 24 year old will ever afford a house, or her younger sister in 10 years?

Perhaps Berrien County ;D

Can I move in next to you Terry ::) ;D ;)

Offline 754

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2010, 10:55:40 PM »
In 73 we could get a lot out here for under 4K and my dads house new in 73 was under 40 K..... it probably 350 - 400K now.

 You could buy a house, then have roomates live frugally and  easily pay it off., at a normal wage... then..

 The shop we bought about 7 or 8 yrs ago has more than tripled in price, the taxes are quadrupled or actually 5 times or more than they were 10 yrs ago.

 We have had abnormal rises in real estate prices here, we are pretty high, on the list of most expensive places to live in North America.

 Like Sochiro said though, you can do it if you set your mind too it, but you have to make sacrifices,, many wont do that.. Myself I never had a new car, bike, anything like that.. probably never will.. just aint worth it to me..

 I disagree about not doing it (being able to) in a normal working situation, there are ways to make money on the side, that can help out.

 What Sochiro figured out was that he wanted to pay for it once, not twice..
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Offline dave500

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2010, 11:45:26 PM »
in the early eighties (we) paid 38500 for a house in belgave/victoria/melbourne(bottom end of the market),shortly after (we) bought an older mack truck for 35000,(err look at the value)4 weeks later (we)broke a crank shaft,15000 dollars later (we) are back on the road,,,credit was too easy to get,,ive always been an optimist,,,but it cant always be encouraged,,um interest rates went up,,paying off a never ending black hole,,i had plenty of work with this tip truck,,and did all basic servicing,i had two kids under 4 years old,,we were never spending except on real bills!!!and we were in reverse!long story short ,,we broke up,,sold the house in a boom 4 years later for near 85000,and broke even more or less ,,,im not that tough now!!i couldnt stand that behind the 8 ball crud these days,,moral is,,only spend on what you need ,,if youve bought all the throw away consumer goods and still owe on stuff thats been and gone,,your a loser,,,ive busted my honest arse staying fair and square,,i know what hand to mouth is,first hand.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2010, 12:57:49 AM »
Can I move in next to you Terry ::) ;D ;)

Yeah mate, I reckon we can live like royalty there, if everything is priced proportionate to their real estate I'll be able to get blind drunk every night (hell, every day too, once I retire!) and still be able to afford the finest hookers when we're the Barons of Berrien County! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2010, 07:55:00 AM »
You bought at 62 and now it's 1/2 price.  ???

No no no.  His house was foreclosed on.  The new owners got a hell of a deal and could probably sell it for close to $100k (especially when the market gets back to normal).

Quote
Perhaps Berrien County ;D

Can I move in next to you Terry ::) ;D ;)

I wish you guys would move in there.  I'm pretty lonely in the real world when it comes to motorcycle buddies.  Could I entice you two to move in there if I arranged to have some bunk beds put into that house for you?   ;D
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 08:19:08 AM by soichiro »
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2010, 08:16:50 AM »
;D ;D
31K......... 62K for a house.............are you kidding !!!!!!      It costs $31K  just to drill a water well out in the bush where you might afford land.

Yes, in your area saving for a few years could get you a house.   I did check a real estate web site for your area. ;)
   What if, and I'm just saying, you grew up in an area where $46,000.00 would get you a trailer "with lot rental rates", 75,000.00 would get you a double wide "with lot rental rates" , and $250,000 would get you a run down house next to an indian reservation?  Would you leave all your family, friends and job to move to  Berrien County where you could afford a house?  

You are living in a strange "lost world" real estate area. Lucky you ;)


Even still.  Come visit me.  We'll go into a bar and you can listen to the local folks.  They too will have mortgages and all the credit card problems.  But from what you said we all in Berrien County should have our houses paid for.  But that's not the case.  You'd see the same mentality and excuses here.  It's been beat into our heads by the people that make money off it.


But to answer your specific question:
In your scenario it's hard to say what I'd do.  I wasn't born a frugal person, and I ended up the way I am a lot by luck (but now I see, and make it happen!).  Early in adulthood, I too, was having people beat it into my head that I must go in debt.  So in your scenario I probably would have my life ruled by monthly payments.  I probably would have to struggle and worry about being laid off, etc.  A lot of my hard earned money would probably go to the pockets of bankers who's only claim to it is that they brainwashed me into believing I needed them to buy stuff.  

But knowing what I know now, what would I do in that situation...
If it was important enough for me to live in that location (and it probably would be if my family lived there), I might leave for a short time until I saved up enough money to pay cash.  I don't know you personally Seaweb, but I get the impression that you are pretty well off.  That is, I get the impression that you've worked hard and have put yourself in a good career and probably make quite a bit of money.  If you really tried, would you be able to pay off your home (in a reasonably short time), or are you saying it's absolutely impossible?  
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 08:20:58 AM by soichiro »
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Offline my78k

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2010, 08:22:06 AM »
Actually I have alot of family over in the UK that are doing exactly what you are thinking about Terry!

My mom's cousins have 2 homes (their primary lot and a second flat near the college he teaches at) and probably could sell both for around 1.2 million pounds.  They have been casually house hunting in London Ontario and can do well for about 400k. That will leave them around 1.5 million CAD plus their pensions to live on. Not too shabby...

In most cases, debt is a necessary evil. The trick is to manage it well. My wife and I did a few things we probably shouldn't have and have gotten in deeper than I would like but we are working on climbing out eventually. It will definitely help when she can land a decent full time job after spending the last couple of years working P/T for minimum wage while attending night school.

What pisses me off is mortgage rates are so low (currently paying 1.45% variable) but credit card rates remain around 20%!!!

Dennis

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2010, 06:53:48 PM »
G'Day dennis, yeah mate, I know what you are saying, my sister who's lived in CA for the last 20-odd years got a nasty surprise the other day, she discovered that the $1,000,000 house that she and her (soon to be ex) husband bought when they moved there from Oz hasn't been paid for, because he thought it was a good idea to just take out an "interest only" loan on the place, so they still owe a million bucks on the place? Due to the recession etc, it's probably worth less money now than it was back in the 1980's.........

As much as I'd love to live in the US, I couldn't leave Oz permanently. Maybe I should buy a holiday house in America, and just travel between both places? Damn, now I gotta take out a loan for my own airplane! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline seaweb11

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2010, 07:12:00 PM »
My sister lives in Nevada and has one of those "interest only" mortgages?

I really can't rap my head around that. If you can't afford a mortgage, what's the point? Now their mortgage is coming due and the loan is worth more than the house?

" If you really tried, would you be able to pay off your home (in a reasonably short time), or are you saying it's absolutely impossible?"
It was pretty much paid for with cash, just before the CDN govt decided I owed them $60,000. "long story".   Good thing I thought ahead and bought waterfront instead of bush ;D getting a mortgage was easy ;)

I do give it to you though soichiro, I could pay it off quicker than I am.

I could have paid it off instead of building the garage ::) :o

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2010, 07:38:55 PM »
I'm a smug ' never had a credit card ' mofo....If I don't have the money saved or scrounged I don't get it ( whatever 'it' is )... It's boring but it's real !! Eventually 'real' gets part of your existance and looking at CC defaulters causing 24% interest for the rest of CC holders is something I don't wan't to be part of.... it's immoral to default, but modern attitudes seem to gloss over that and to charge the problem on the greater populace of CC holders is acceptable......... oh well.
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2010, 07:56:24 PM »
Probably not.  Depending upon location, most houses are still wildly overpriced here in NJ and in CA.  Houses that were selling in my neighborhood in 2000 for less than $200K are now selling for more than $500K, whereas three years ago they were selling for $750K.  In my opinion, a 250% change over 10 years is still way overpriced.  Typically, it is the poor fools who paid $750K on interest only, no down payment, 5 year adjustable-rate loans that are now suffering, along with those who overpaid for "investment properties" that they can no longer rent out while counting on appreciation, and those who constantly took out home equity loans to buy consumer crap like new BMWs, extravagant vacations, and plasma TVs.  

Back when the now $500K houses in my neighborhood were selling for $750K, they were getting bought up and TORN DOWN in order to build even more elaborate McMansions, which were then sold for $1M to $5M.  Amazingly, some of those McMansions are now selling in foreclosure for little more than $500K, but still nobody wants them because the property taxes are so outrageous.

Seems to me like the more moderate and smaller houses in decent neighborhoods were the best buys.

G'Day dennis, yeah mate, I know what you are saying, my sister who's lived in CA for the last 20-odd years got a nasty surprise the other day, she discovered that the $1,000,000 house that she and her (soon to be ex) husband bought when they moved there from Oz hasn't been paid for, because he thought it was a good idea to just take out an "interest only" loan on the place, so they still owe a million bucks on the place? Due to the recession etc, it's probably worth less money now than it was back in the 1980's.........

As much as I'd love to live in the US, I couldn't leave Oz permanently. Maybe I should buy a holiday house in America, and just travel between both places? Damn, now I gotta take out a loan for my own airplane! ;D
SOHC4 #289
1977 CB550K - SOLD
1997 YAMAHA XJ600S - SOLD
1986 GL1200I - SOLD
2004 BMW R1150R

Jetting: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg258435#msg258435
Needles:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20869.msg253711#msg253711

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2010, 02:13:24 AM »
Yeah, you could be right Ed, I'm only going by what the realtor told my sis about her house last week, and it's no mansion mate, in 1988 a million bucks didn't buy a mansion in her neighborhood, just a nice "bungalow". Trouble is, in the last couple of weeks most of her neighbors houses have slid into the canyon after some brush fires followed by some heavy rain, and although her house is unharmed, not surprisingly, no one wants to buy it.

I think her ex's idea was that they'd reduce their expenses by going the interest only route while he waited for his (wealthy) mother to die and leave him everything, then pay it in one lump. Trouble is, she's now 94 and still going strong, and they still owe what they owed 22 years ago, on a fairly undesireable property. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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Offline tramp

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Re: Time to Settle up
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2010, 01:52:27 PM »
dave ramsey is goo to listen to
has lots of common sense
1974 750k