Author Topic: Iain's 1979 CB650 project log - 118 Pictures  (Read 31526 times)

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Offline Pinhead

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #75 on: July 28, 2010, 03:28:52 PM »
BeforeI tore my 650 down I was running 90 weight in the front forks. I like to taunt the twisties, though. ;)
Doug

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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2010, 03:49:21 PM »
:D You are a crazy, crazy man. :D
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #77 on: July 29, 2010, 10:17:07 AM »
Assuming the rain holds off I should have the carbs synced tonight and some heavier oil in the forks for another test run.

I'm getting anxious and want this bike feeling safe and reliable before I take it on any serious trips out of the city.

Since it's been a while since I've posted any photos, I'll give you a teaser. I had my friend Craig fabricate a couple adaptors for turn signals I got from my friends 650c he's been parting out. The clamps I bought for the other turn signals I was going to use just have a bolt hole through them, so he made this to fit the inside diameter of the turn signal stem. They work perfectly and now I have turn signals that actually are bright enough to feel safe using.




Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #78 on: July 30, 2010, 10:48:28 PM »
Got some more work done today. Front forks are now filled with 20w oil and ~13psi of air. They feel quite a bit better but I still think they could be stiffer. New springs are probably the next step if I want any better performance out of them. Note: When draining air forks make sure to release the air pressure before backing off the drain bolt, unless of course you like showering in fork oil. :-[

After cleaning up from the fork job I moved on to the carbs. Syncing them has been a real pain as my battery doesn't seem to be holding a charge. I've had it on the trickle charger but after a few starts or just letting it idle too long its really dieing. Otherwise it might be an issue with the charging system but I'm surprised the battery is dieing so fast. I'll get it load tested soon.

I did manage to get my carbs synced and the bike is idling significantly better. However once I'm riding and I hit about 4500rpm I really start bogging down. I haven't swapped out any of the jets in my carbs when I put the 4-1 exhaust on, so this may be a contributing factor. The plugs appear to indicate I'm running rich. Tomorrow I'll try removing the paper filter that's in there, and I'll pick up a recharge kit for the K&N I've got on the shelf, hopefully that will get it some more air.

My horn has also been acting strangely. It got stuck on during a short run around the block and wouldn't turn off. I eventually just unplugged it but didn't bother to troubleshoot much as it was getting dark.

whitesonj

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #79 on: July 31, 2010, 06:32:22 AM »
I read somewhere, maybe even in my owner's manual.. That the charging system doesn't come into play until about 1700rpm, and it was recommended that extended idling should be avoided due to possible battery drain and the shortening of battery life.

I dunno.. Food for thought?

Btw, great progress so far  8)

EDIT:

Ok, so the owner's manual does in fact say that the charging system doesn't kick in till 1700rpm. It also says that riding for 20-25 mins at higher rpms is recommended before performing maintenance that requires extended idling.

I know you said you have it hooked up to a charger.. So this may not of helped at all, but who knows? Maybe you're just idling too long?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 06:41:23 AM by whitesonj »

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2010, 04:35:50 AM »
It may just be dieing because I am idling too long, I was aware it wouldn't charge without taking it for a spin. It just seemed to be draining particularly fast. Maybe I have a short somewhere or my battery is just getting weak, or maybe I'm just imagining more problems than I really have. Hahaha

I've only had a short amount of time to work on it, but I removed the paper air filter and replaced it with my newly cleaned and oiled K&N. I've also removed the cover from the filter as I've heard some people have issues with it not providing enough air flow when installed. I'll take it for a test ride when I get home from work and see if I'm getting more power now. *fingers crossed*

Offline davesee

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2010, 06:35:44 AM »
i'm just checking in to your project now...looks great! i`m in halifax too with an `80 cb650, so i look forward to seeing you and your bike on the street!

keep at it!
1980 honda cb650 with many weekends worth of modifications.

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2010, 07:59:36 AM »
Didn't think there were too many of us around here. If you ever see me around town with the bike make sure to stop and say hi. I've got a pile of parts in the garage if you ever need anything, just let me know.

Offline Pinhead

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2010, 10:08:47 AM »
Disconnect your lighting fuses when you're going to be idling for any amount of time. If the charging system is functional it should be able to charge the battery and keep the ignition working without the extra load of the lights.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

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By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
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Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #84 on: August 02, 2010, 01:25:26 PM »
That's a really great idea Pinhead, I'll remember that for later.  :)

So I'm starting to get extremely frustrated. My battery refuses to hold a charge, which really bothers me seeing as I bought it brand new at the end of last summer, it's less than a year old and has barely been used. I honestly don't want to spend another 80$ on a battery but it's looking like I might not have any other option. To get enough juice to get it stated and take it around the neighborhood means charging it for hours. I can't even take it to far for fear the battery will leave me stranded.  >:( >:(

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2010, 01:59:46 PM »
are you sure you're adequately charging?  Take your battery to the bike shop (or battery shop) and get it load tested. That's usually free.  If the battery's good, then your problem exists somewhere within the bike, which is pretty common because 650s tend to have charging issues. 

Deep breaths.  In, out. 

Electrics are tricky, but you can do this.  I trust you've already cleaned your connections and packed them in dielectric grease. If not, that's a good rainy day project in the garage, just sit down with a beer (or two, or three), a clean cloth and some brasso.  Clean up those bullet connections so they're good and smooth.  The smoother they are, the greater surface area will connect with the female connectors.  I used 1500 sandpaper to clean the female connector slots, too.  Obviously, inspect things while you're going through them to make sure you don't have obvious shorts, etc.  Once you're done with that, a good, quick check of your charging output is to take your multimeter, switch it to DC volts, start the bike, and put the appropriate gator clips on the appropriate battery posts.  (alternative- if you have a battery tender, get the little pigtail wires that connect to the battery, then just stick your needle probes in the appropriate holes of the connector, that way you can leave your seat on after awhile)   Once the bike is running, have a friend or your third hand rev the engine and hold it at around 3k rpms.  Your charging should be close to 13v.  around 5k rpms you should top out at 13.8 or so. 

For a more thorough guide, go here

Report back with your findings and we'll try to help the best we can. :)
When you get frustrated, don't be afraid to step back and take a break. You'll thank yourself.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline davesee

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #86 on: August 02, 2010, 02:22:06 PM »
Didn't think there were too many of us around here. If you ever see me around town with the bike make sure to stop and say hi. I've got a pile of parts in the garage if you ever need anything, just let me know.

thanks, man. i will definitely say hi.

just keep at the bike...i went through the same incredible frustration with mine a few weeks ago (just endless troubleshooting, not a complete rebuild like yours) and i know how it feels to think it will never happen. i did the hubbards/fox point loop today, and i'm telling you it is totally worth all your effort.
1980 honda cb650 with many weekends worth of modifications.

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #87 on: August 02, 2010, 03:54:26 PM »
Thanks guys, chillin out a bit now, the support from forum members is great here.  :)

The battery is still pretty weak but I managed to get it to start enough to take it around the block a few times. The bike is still losing power once I hit 4500rpm, the new air filter and removing the cover hasn't seemed to help much. I'm thinking the next step is to pick up some jets and start playing with that. I may trying putting the other 4-1 header/muffler I have in the garage on. I'm sure it will provide more back pressure so it may run better with that for now.

Unfortunately it's a Holiday here today so I can't get the battery tested until tomorrow, but thats the next step. I'm going to take your advice Kit and go over all the connectors if it turns out my battery is fine. I'm kinda hoping I'm one of the lucky individuals who doesn't have a fried charging system and just a battery problem, otherwise I could be into a lot more work.

Question time:
For all those running 4 into 1 on your CB650 with PD carbs, what jets are you running?

Offline JimJamerino

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2010, 03:33:44 AM »
Yeah, it seems we 650 riders are few and far between, but I think a lot of the advice here does transfer.  I'm liking your build; keep up the good work!
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Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2010, 07:00:21 AM »
So after mellowing out a bit  8) my dad and I decided to do a little electrical troubleshooting. It was obvious very quickly that I had a short, and with a bit of troubleshooting found a pinched wire running to the alternator. Fixing this the resistance on the short dropped significantly however it was too late at night to test and see if I'm charging any better.

I think I may still have a short though so let me explain what we found. The short completely disappears when I disconnect the connector running from the Reg/Rec with the Black, Green and Red/White wire. I've determined that the short occurs when connecting the red/white wire. According to the wiring diagram this runs to the Starter magnetic switch but I haven't been able to figure out what is causing it. We determined this by disconnecting the positive lead on the battery, attaching one end of the ohm meter to that lead, and the other to the frame. It only appears when the red/white wire is connected.

We also tried testing both my regulator/rectifiers with the meter, it instructed to test for high resistance and low resistance from the yellow wires running to the alternator, with the green and I think red/white(not sure but followed the instructions), I got a high reading on both, but either my meter is too old to get the lower readings or both are not functioning properly as I don't have any reading when I reverse the polarity.

Any ideas?  ???

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2010, 12:24:14 PM »
It's getting close but I'm still having a hell of a time with the electrical system.

Good news first. Every time I've taken it out its driving better and better. Seems a combination of the K&N filter, leaving the filter cover on, and the 4-1 exhaust work pretty well up into the higher rpms. I'm sure with more testing and real time on the road I'll discover I can get it better, but for now I'm pleased.

Bad News. Still not able to keep the battery charged as I ride. I put it on the battery tender, leave it for a few hours, when I come back it starts right up no problem. Runs well for the first few minutes of driving, then by the time I'm only a kilometer or two away, it really starts to give me trouble. I've got to give it lots of gas to stay alive and it will eventually die. At this point one or two push starts might get me a little further but eventually I'm stuck pushing the bike up a hill just as it starts pouring rain, hoping I can coast the rest of the way home once I make the crest.  :-[ :'(

EDIT: I mention the air cover because after reading here: http://www.myhonda650.com/cb650problems.htm that it could be a possible solution, I figured I'd take it off and give it a try, also note I have the other style filter and housing

EDIT 2: I took the battery in to Canadian Tire where I bought it to be load tested, but the guy working the parts counter recommended I didn't as their load tester was not set up for such small batteries. I'll have to take it to a bike shop but need to find the time to get there before it closes tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 01:37:18 PM by IainC »

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2010, 12:55:24 PM »


This should help explain my earlier post.

I guess my question is, should I have an open circuit between the red/white wire on the Rectifier and the positive terminal on the battery, and the ground?
(If you can't read the text, the Rectifier is on the far right in the middle, the red/white wire runs up to the Starter Magnetic Switch, the positive lead to the battery comes off the starter switch.)

Offline Pinhead

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2010, 07:23:51 PM »
I'll have to go through the diagram when I get to a computer (my phone screen is way too tiny).

I wouldn't even worry about jetting and carbs until you get the electrics sorted; a weak spark (caused by low system voltage) will "feel" just like the carbs are cutting out.
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2010, 11:18:05 AM »
Success!  ;D A new battery seems to have solved all my problems. The bike is running better than it ever has under my ownership.  :D

I took it for a decent ride yesterday, out for a couple hours. No problems bringing it up to highway speeds, although I still feel like I should be getting more power in the higher RPMs. I think with some adjustments to the carbs, the power band will be a lot more even and I should be able to get some more grunt. It feels likes its running a little lean still, back firing when giving a lot of throttle fast, so maybe just adjusting my needles will get it perfect.

My headlight is NOT bright enough, I've got an H4 setup, so a trip to the auto parts store should get me a brighter bulb. Any suggestions on what to go with? I'd like to avoid something that will suck to much juice from the charging system.  ::)

All said though I'm pretty happy right now, it's running great, the weather is nice, I have the weekend off, should be a fun few days while I break her in after all this work.  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Pinhead

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2010, 10:55:21 AM »
I see that you have a '79...

If you've still got the stock carbs get yourself a set of 102.5 main jets and ditch the air filter cover. Your bike will love you for it (but your rear tire might not).  ;D
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2010, 11:01:33 AM »
what's the suggested idle jet size? 
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Pinhead

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2010, 12:22:15 PM »
I'm still running stock idle jets. As long as your accelerator pump is working I'd stick with stock idle jet sizes.

It helps, though, that you have good strong spark.

You should also "relay" the power to your ignition coils. This will eliminate any voltage drop through your wiring harness (mine was losing 1.5V).
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #97 on: August 08, 2010, 02:03:24 PM »
I'm open for suggestions to improve the electrical system, but I really don't have the best grasp of it all, so any more details would be great. I also have a new set of plug wires to install when I get some new ends.

102.5 jets, I'll order a set tomorrow, is there a certain fitting size or brand I should order?  ???

As far as I know the accelerator pump is fine, I took the pieces out of another set of carbs I have as the old rubber pieces were in rough shape.

So far I've put 200km on it in the last couple days. Taking it slow, want to make sure I'm not too far out of town in case I run into a problem. I have noticed that as I start riding for a bit, it becomes harder to shift. To the point that the bike is stalling with the clutch lever pulled in all the way at stops. It feels like the clutch isn't engaging properly. I've adjusted the nut and screw under the little cover a couple times now, and the cable at the arm on the clutch is backed up almost all the way. The cable is a little long for these new bars, and may be stretched from age so this might be my problem. Hopefully ordering a shorter one will solve this issue.

Offline HondaNorway

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2010, 02:15:08 PM »
Great build! Keep the pictures comming!  ;D
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Offline IainC

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Re: IainC CB650 project log - 101 Pictures and Counting
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2010, 06:01:43 PM »
I've been having some serious clutch issues now. You can check out this thread for more http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=75158.0. For now its parked at Brandon's place and we tear into the clutch tomorrow, going to bring all my clutch bits off the parts bike along with all the parts for an oil change.

I've got 307km on the clock since I've started the overhaul and already a major problem. I guess I can say at least I'm working out the issues early before I end up stranded in the country somewhere.  :'( :'( :'(