Topic: health care bill

[Retro Rocket]

Note the savings part of my little fiscal plan? I do have insurance, it just has a $3500 deductible, so I religiously put 5% of my checks in a HSA, and pray. Should I get cancer (very possible given my past life style) thems the breaks. Everybody dies sometime, and I look forward to meeting God; as its the end of this test and on to the next step. People need to learn to die gracefully, not that I wish anyone ill, but an extra year or two isn't worth bankrupting your children, or worse, someone else's children.

Cancer isn't necessarily a death sentence, but it can definitely be life changing. So once your health fund is drained and you can no longer afford your treatment, what are you saying, you will end it all? I wish i was 30 and care free all over again....

Mick

[Spikeybike]

yes the end ... my friend .... the end

[Cormac]

Glad to help. And yep, people do suffer cancer in their 20's and 30's. One of my brothers for example, throat cancer at 34. Cost a bloody fortune, but between his insurance (that he paid for) and a really conservative life style he has both beaten the cancer and paid for it. And people in their 60's need not die from it as well. My own mother had two brain tumors removed at your lovely Portland hospital. Also cost a bloody fortune, which is still being paid for by most of my family. Which is the way it is supposed to be done, Family first, then charity, then LAST RESORT public aid.  

And you think I'm carefree? Wanna swap? I had fun in Oz, wouldn't mind going back...

[Cormac]

good tune

[Retro Rocket]

Glad to help. And yep, people do suffer cancer in their 20's and 30's. One of my brothers for example, throat cancer at 34. Cost a bloody fortune, but between his insurance (that he paid for) and a really conservative life style he has both beaten the cancer and paid for it. And people in their 60's need not die from it as well. My own mother had two brain tumors removed at your lovely Portland hospital. Also cost a bloody fortune, which is still being paid for by most of my family. Which is the way it is supposed to be done, Family first, then charity, then LAST RESORT public aid.  

And you think I'm carefree? Wanna swap? I had fun in Oz, wouldn't mind going back...

Welcome back Cormac, it won't be an exchange program though, i spent a year in hospital 11 years ago before i had a transplant, didn't cost me a cent,  well i see it as using my taxes properly..... Our Meds are also subsidised so it only costs me $10.80 a month, yep i am staying here....

Mick

[Cormac]

But your auto insurance is insane, and ammo is taxed out of sight!

Besides, I don't think my wife would trust me down there again... Last time she was still 21 and didn't have to worry about the competition as much, now that she's 30...

[Retro Rocket]

But your auto insurance is insane, and ammo is taxed out of sight!

Besides, I don't think my wife would trust me down there again... Last time she was still 21 and didn't have to worry about the competition as much, now that she's 30...

Actually my auto insurance is very good as i have a great record, it is now just under $300 a year.....you see there is some advantages to being over 40....

Mick

[edbikerii]

Wow, talk about backwards thinking!  It really does seem to pervade your thinking all the way to the core, Kit!

Cormac pays for insurance, as every responsible person should.  By doing so, he is VOLUNTARILY helping to contribute to the health of ALL.  Responsible people like him DON'T HAVE TO BE FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT to be productive members of society.  THEY ARE THE PILLARS UPON WHICH THE REST OF OUR SOCIETY IS BUILT.  They will NEVER BE A BURDEN ON SOCIETY because they insure themselves and their families against that.  Like good people should, they know that it is SHAMEFUL to be a burden on society.  Rather than attacking responsible people, Obama and the other socialists should be kissing their asses for bailing everyone else out!  Instead of THANKING the PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY, socialists PENALIZE them by increasing their taxes and taking away their freedoms.  The whole socialist system is upside down.

It is the leaches in society that make me feel more human by comparison.

Note the savings part of my little fiscal plan? I do have insurance, it just has a $3500 deductible, so I religiously put 5% of my checks in a HSA, and pray. Should I get cancer (very possible given my past life style) thems the breaks. Everybody dies sometime, and I look forward to meeting God; as its the end of this test and on to the next step. People need to learn to die gracefully, not that I wish anyone ill, but an extra year or two isn't worth bankrupting your children, or worse, someone else's children.

If everyone who got cancer was 60-70-80-90 years old, I suppose this would be true, but there are an awful lot of people who suffer cancers in their 20s and 30s with families, etc... but I guess saving and praying is the way to go, right?  If they're going to die, then they'd better do it and rid us of the surplus population.

And here I thought I was getting thick skinned, getting used to taking young peoples' bodies to the morgue.  Thanks for helping me feel just a little more human again, if only by comparison.

[demon78]

Why are you shouting Ed?
Bill the demon.

[DaytonGuy]

I think somehow the school system (or the welfare system, the media, or somebody they actually pay attention to) needs to focus on educating parents on the benefits of raising their children properly and on taking some responsibility for their own successes and failures.

I see and hear statements like this all the time.  Why is it that most people always think someone else should do this?  Why not be part of the solution by joining a mentor program or somthing in your local community?  You know......it take a vilage to raise a child kinda thing.  I'm not saying that we should all take resposibility to raise these kids.  Sometimes all they need is a little posotive influence in their lifes to make a big difference in how they see things.  I do agree that these other groups could play a role in this, but so could the idividual.

[w1sa]

I won't pretend to understand the intracacies of how your health services and government systems works.

To help me understand better, can you explain to me the likely health outcome of this individual scenario.

A late middle aged lady needs neuro surgery to save her life. Though life threatening, the condition is perfectly treatable, but the surgery and treatment is expensive. She does not have adequate insurance to cover the operation/ treatment. She does not have other cash or means to pay.
Her children have the capacity to pay, by arrangement, but deny their ability and/or refuse for selfish purposes.

So, what will be the likely treatment that this sick individual would receive......?

[Markcb750]

She would be treated through the Medicaid/Medicare system.

Her children would not be required to prove anything.

Those treating her would be paid what Medicaid/Medicare deemed appropriate for the service.  


This is where the my issue comes in;

The providers claim this reimbursement does not cover costs, the additional amount is passed on by higher pricing to insured or self covering people.

So we are all paying for everyone now, it is just a bean counting cluster f**k to get it done.

Each time they bend over the next one down the line they take a cut...and the circle goes round, and the bean counters whine, and the money we spend buys Bentleys.

[edbikerii]

Why would you assume that I don't?  I coach baseball for my kid's team, help out with Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and serve as a mentor to many kids, as well as volunteering for Kids ID programs, etc.

I like your point, though, that we can certainly do more to help.  My point, however, is that for some reason the media does more than its share to UNDERMINE our children.  Why do you think that is?

I think somehow the school system (or the welfare system, the media, or somebody they actually pay attention to) needs to focus on educating parents on the benefits of raising their children properly and on taking some responsibility for their own successes and failures.

I see and hear statements like this all the time.  Why is it that most people always think someone else should do this?  Why not be part of the solution by joining a mentor program or somthing in your local community?  You know......it take a vilage to raise a child kinda thing.  I'm not saying that we should all take resposibility to raise these kids.  Sometimes all they need is a little posotive influence in their lifes to make a big difference in how they see things.  I do agree that these other groups could play a role in this, but so could the idividual.

[Duke McDukiedook]

The profit margin and the lcd, more money in hurting people than helping.

[Caaveman82]

So do you put the people that have worked all their life and have been bankrupted by your insufficient health system, that now are being paid some sort of welfare, into this group as well. Simplistic views do nothing top help at all, you just better hope you never get cancer or need a transplant because you will soon see the other side of the story.
As W1sa said "We spend collectively (sometimes wastefully) on 'Defense', to protect us ALL from the dangers with-out, why shouldn't we expect to spend collectively on equitable 'Health Care' to protect us ALL from with-in...............?"

Mick

He'll be okay now Mick, thanks to the bill. His insurance company won't be able to drop him when he gets sick and make him pay for the 200k for the surgery.

[Jordan]

So according to some I am a leach. I worked hard all my life almost 45 years at jobs that took their toll on my body, I got sick and was unable to work, lost my job lost my health coverage had to sell basically everything, came within days of losing my house. Had to get food stamps just to feed my family. Had to get a lawyer to fight with the government to get SSDI. Was in the bankruptcy procedure when I went to federal court to battle them, and lucky for me won (why did I have to win what I owned by paying for all my working years?) SSDI based on my condition. It took 5 years and everything I had to fight to get what I had been working for all my life. Now I have chronic debilitating diseases and injuries that make me unemployable in the real world, no way would any health insurer cover me and I have to pay over a hundred dollars out of my ssdi back to the government for medicare and pay more to get medication discounts, eye glasses, dental forget it more $$ and it is only basic crap, not what I had when working. Now because the yearly amount puts me way below the poverty level, I do get to give them less but some days it is a choice between eating or taking medicine to stay alive. Don't give me any of your high and mighty gibberish as I am living the nightmare. Most people do not realize they are only a couple of paychecks away from total disaster and it is a horrible thing that people who get sick have to lose everything before they can get any help. Either that, or they die, then everyone else is happy because they do not have to pay for another leach!      

[Caaveman82]

She would be treated through the Medicaid/Medicare system.

Her children would not be required to prove anything.

Those treating her would be paid what Medicaid/Medicare deemed appropriate for the service.  


This is where the my issue comes in;

The providers claim this reimbursement does not cover costs, the additional amount is passed on by higher pricing to insured or self covering people.

So we are all paying for everyone now, it is just a bean counting cluster f**k to get it done.

Each time they bend over the next one down the line they take a cut...and the circle goes round, and the bean counters whine, and the money we spend buys Bentleys.

That is not correct at all sir. The chance that the old woman would get on Medicade before this condition took her life is slim to none. Then on top of it even if she does make it on Medicade on time, finding a hospital worth a crap to do the operation that accepts medicade is going to be a chore.

[Markcb750]

Do you know of dying people who sit in hospitals with known illnesses and they are tossed out...

It does not happen. They are treated; Every Hospital has a social worker staff that evaluates the situation and finds a way to take care of the problem. I am sure there is some delay, and I am sure some fall through the cracks, but she would be treated.  Although not at a hospital of her choosing.

Go to a hospital, ask them the question, they will inform you.

[Inigo Montoya]

yup jordan, you just need to die. Everybody is able to work, there are enough jobs that every person on the planet should be able to work. you could get a job as a paper weight!  Yes this is full of sarcasm. Not everyone CAN work. People having to fight to get ssdi is not a rare occurrence. There are a lot of people out there like Jordan that do not choose to be a leach. Reasons like this are why reform has been needed for a long time.

Cormac, it must be so liberating for you to feel you can just toss people away.

people like jordan who have worked and contributed to society do deserve our help.

[Duke McDukiedook]

They get treated after they get dumped off at county general or on the street.

The good hospitals are pretty efficient at dumping the GOMERS.

Talk to anyone that works at the your county general, they'll tell you.

[Markcb750]

people like jordan who have worked and contributed to society do deserve our help.

My point is they do get treated, we pay for it, why make it a feeding fest for lawyers and bean counters?  


why do we make it such a cluster F**k to do the right thing?



[and the answer is MONEY]

[Jordan]

What the hospital won't tell you is, yes they will treat you but their billing departments and the insurance companies will hound you and your family for full payment for that treatment, for the rest of your lives. My point in the post above is that most people are oblivious to the systems pitfalls until they have the unfortunate opportunity to experience it. The poor will always be with us and yes the manipulators and players of the system too. But regular folks that do their best to care for themselves, their families and contribute to our society deserve better.  

[edbikerii]

OBVIOUSLY NOT, JORDAN.  You worked all your life, you PAID INTO THE SYSTEM, and you EARNED those Social Security Benefits if you are now handicapped.  It should be pretty obvious to everyone here that I'm not talking about legitimately handicapped people.

I don't know why it took you 5 years of legal wrangling to get your Social Security benefits.  I've heard of several cases similar to yours, and I think they are horrendous.

On the other hand, I've also heard of several cases of fraud and abuse that were granted Social Security benefits with no hassle at all.  Stupid self-inflicted things like alcoholism and obesity qualify people for Social Security benefits.  This fraud, in large part, is why some legitimate cases are handled so poorly.

So according to some I am a leach. I worked hard all my life almost 45 years at jobs that took their toll on my body, I got sick and was unable to work, lost my job lost my health coverage had to sell basically everything, came within days of losing my house. Had to get food stamps just to feed my family. Had to get a lawyer to fight with the government to get SSDI. Was in the bankruptcy procedure when I went to federal court to battle them, and lucky for me won (why did I have to win what I owned by paying for all my working years?) SSDI based on my condition. It took 5 years and everything I had to fight to get what I had been working for all my life. Now I have chronic debilitating diseases and injuries that make me unemployable in the real world, no way would any health insurer cover me and I have to pay over a hundred dollars out of my ssdi back to the government for medicare and pay more to get medication discounts, eye glasses, dental forget it more $$ and it is only basic crap, not what I had when working. Now because the yearly amount puts me way below the poverty level, I do get to give them less but some days it is a choice between eating or taking medicine to stay alive. Don't give me any of your high and mighty gibberish as I am living the nightmare. Most people do not realize they are only a couple of paychecks away from total disaster and it is a horrible thing that people who get sick have to lose everything before they can get any help. Either that, or they die, then everyone else is happy because they do not have to pay for another leach!      

[Caaveman82]

Case in point:

My best friends mother went in for a gastric bypass. She was the vice president of a major communications company in the United States. She went in for the bypass and they knicked her big intestin. She got septic and became very ill. She had health insurance and was making half a mill a year. They then diagnosed her with lupis. Her insurance dropped her. Her liver gave out. Problem, after problem, after problem. When it was all said and done her medical bills reached the 2.5 million mark. With no insurance. She drained her savings account. They got rid of their house. She lost her job because she was too sick to work any longer. Now they are totally screwed. Why? Because they did all the stuff cormac said and still got bit in the end. She donated a good portion of her income to charity and payed more taxes than any of us. Yet she couldn't qualify for any government help. So tell me the system works. Please.

[Laminar]

Why did she require gastric bypass in the first place?