Author Topic: Pics of modified airbox.  (Read 3946 times)

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Offline fang

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Pics of modified airbox.
« on: March 21, 2010, 08:20:40 PM »
Inspired after reading the entire "What is wrong with the stock Honda induction system" discussion, I ran out to the workshop and snapped a quick pic of an air box I modified some time ago:

It is a stock-replacement K&N filter, and I think the airbox is stock, except the sides of the bottom half are removed.  I have a custom plate sealing the bottom of the filter and affixing it to the top half.  IMHO this a good compromising performance mod -- you get the benefits of factory velocity stacks, et all.  Plus you get the potential of increased air flow from which the 900cc big bore motor and hot cam might benefit.

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-fang
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 08:48:24 PM by fang »
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Offline wannabridin

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 08:26:43 PM »
i like that a little bit!  i wonder what others have to say...

now are those REAL cr's or are they just PD's??   :D :D

is that the drop in K&N filter with the bottom plate?  interesting approach, i might have to do something like this if it looks ok on my build...
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Offline 754

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 08:48:36 PM »
Looks like a 77/78 box, does it have a fitting on top?
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2010, 08:54:43 PM »
The airbox/filter restriction is matched to the engine vacuum to produce the optimum fuel/air mixture across the rpm range by Honda... is your mod better?....... if so it's a sensation   !!    ( no diss intended ).
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 10:36:09 PM »
I am going to post here so i can follow this thread. I would like to see what TT thinks of this mod.......I have some ideas as well....Hmmm

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Offline Kinch

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 11:16:41 PM »
Damn holmes, you have some serious peanut butter on those carbs.
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Offline fastbroshi

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 12:04:46 AM »
I must say, think the letters "CR" are in the wrong shade of crimson ol' chap.
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Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2010, 03:46:42 AM »
All I am gonna say man is don't get stuck in the rain somewhere or go through a puddle... There's a reason they enclosed it originally.
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Offline fang

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2010, 05:20:11 AM »
#1  They are NOT 'cr' carbs.  That was an old joke.  It is however real red paint!

#2  I don't have any data whether or not this improves anything, but I have never had any trouble from water....  It takes a lot of water coming in though the intake to actually cause real problems.

I just posted the pic as idea fodder -- I build fast two strokes, and have built about 15(?) cb750 motors, many of them are pretty fast.  I wanted to keep the well engineered intake length, and I also wanted to experiment with increasing air flow.  This system has worked well for me, and I think it helps my bike breather better.  Is it a system that a doufus could screw up?  Yes it is.  Yet somehow it has not yet caused me any troubles at all.

I do ride like this in all kinds of weather, rain, snow and shine, often for hundreds of miles at a time.  This air box on a well-tuned 750 with a slightly larger front sprocket got about 65mpg on a cross country trip riding my wife and I.

peace and grease,
-fang
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 05:21:54 AM by fang »
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Offline wannabridin

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2010, 06:19:55 AM »
im interested in following this discussion as well!  i hope some of the other intake "guru's" will post good information on this.  I know Hondaman has advice on how to increase the performance of a stock airbox, but i can't quite recall what exactly this is.  also, i know the 77/78 airboxes were different than the pre-77's.  either way, looks like there's potential for this mod to work
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Offline 750

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2010, 06:42:44 AM »
I'm interested in following this discussion as well!  i hope some of the other intake "guru's" will post good information on this.  I know Hondaman has advice on how to increase the performance of a stock airbox, but i can't quite recall what exactly this is.  also, i know the 77/78 airboxes were different than the pre-77's.  either way, looks like there's potential for this mod to work

HMMMMMMMMMM. I think I like.  The looks arne't bad. The idea seams to have some vary real potential.  What I really want to know is what the mathematicians think??? O and I wish I would have thought to paint CR on my carbs.  It would have been a lot cheeper than the rout I took and jetting would have been way easier ;-)  just kidding I really do think your idea is genius.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 06:52:08 AM by 750 »

Offline 754

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 08:23:57 AM »
#7, I dont know what kind of puddles or streams you cross, but does it really splash above your knees.

 You will stop riding the bike long before that air cleaner injests enough water to run poorly.

 One advantage to that type of aircleaner, if it did get wet by aiming a hose right at it, you can probably shake it dry enough to ride, the paper one will take hours...
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Offline nobody

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 09:27:14 AM »
I like it, it looks good. As for performance, do you get the dead spots that pods get or is the power band consistent with a stock air box?
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 11:44:19 AM »
From what I can see, the only change was to remove the lower portion of the 750 air box and use a plate to hold on a K&N filter and block air that may bypass the filter.  Is that what we are evaluating?  If so...

This removes the restriction caused by the area of the stock inlet to the lower air box.  This, in effect, shortens the inlet duct moving the atmospheric pressure source closer to the metering jets.  In addition, the filter membrane change from the paper type to the K&N, changes the pressure drop across it (likely lower) which also adds to changing the pressure seen at the fuel metering jet exits.
The sum of this change is likely to make the carbs supply less fuel for the incoming air as compared to before the change, or the original configuration.

This would seem to be borne out buy the report of now getting 65 MPG.  (Vs what mpg beforehand?  I assume lower??  Note lack of supportive data.)
Anyway, with that sort of MPG, I would expect the spark plugs to be mostly devoid of deposits.  The concern would be changing operation to a lower altitude, I.E. If normal operation was at 5000 Ft, then traveling to sea level) where an already lean mixture would become even leaner. (possibly with pinging and or detonation, as there is no device to make the engine richer/leaner with altitude changes.)

The exposed air filter is, of course, open to water contamination.  As the K&N filter is an oiled membrane, water will wash away the oil and effect its dirt trapping performance.  When it does get wet, the filter then needs immediate service to clean and re oil.  I simply don't know if water makes a change to it's membrane pressure drop like it does with paper types, by rearranging/compressing the fibers.  I would hope not since the K&N is touted as cleanable and reusable.

It is not clear than any engine mods were performed to require an increase in air flow beyond what the original lower air box inlet provided.  Certainly a big bore, cam changes, etc. may need and inlet opening beyond what the stock inlet provided. 

To remove the instant maintenance attention a wet filter would instigate.  I would favor a change to the lower air box inlet, increasing it's inlet area.  If the K&N did not provide enough filter area to achieve the desired membrane pressure drop, you could alternately stack two of them and make a chamber collar to allow enclosure of the double stack.

This assumes using the same carb inlet diameter as the stock original carbs.  An increase in inlet size there would require a change the inlet couplers.  And changing the spacing of the carbs would mean the upper air box probably wouldn't line up anyway.

I have no Cb750 air box spares to test stacking/inlet enlargement idea.  I don't know if it would even fit.  It's just a working proposal based on my current understanding of induction theory and operation.

Of course, it is also assumed that carb jetting changes be made as appropriate.

Hope this is of some value.
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Offline fang

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 01:37:16 PM »
Thanks all for chiming in.  For me it was just a no-brainer idea one day -- I didn't want to run pods, and I wanted more air flow than a stock airbox would give me.

TwoTired, Thanks for chiming in.  I think you're right about stacking air filters, but am happy with this current configuration, and it seems to be running well enough.  I am a reasonably good mechanic, have worked in an managed vintage bike restoration places, and I think I have the jetting set up more or less correctly.  Or at least I used to -- I pulled this airbox and carbs off of bike I am currently rebuilding (the 65mpg one) but the set up is working good enough for now. 

By the way, the 65mpg bike was almost completely stock, with the exception of a different sprocket.  I bought it not running for $400, and four days later I drove it with my young wife about 1,800 miles through Yellowstone, over the mountains and across the desert from Cody, Wyoming to Ashaland, Oregon.  Ah to be young and dumb enough to pull stuff like that off!

peace and grease,
fang
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Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 03:13:21 AM »
#1  They are NOT 'cr' carbs.  That was an old joke.  It is however real red paint!

#2  I don't have any data whether or not this improves anything, but I have never had any trouble from water....  It takes a lot of water coming in though the intake to actually cause real problems.

I just posted the pic as idea fodder -- I build fast two strokes, and have built about 15(?) cb750 motors, many of them are pretty fast.  I wanted to keep the well engineered intake length, and I also wanted to experiment with increasing air flow.  This system has worked well for me, and I think it helps my bike breather better.  Is it a system that a doufus could screw up?  Yes it is.  Yet somehow it has not yet caused me any troubles at all.

I do ride like this in all kinds of weather, rain, snow and shine, often for hundreds of miles at a time.  This air box on a well-tuned 750 with a slightly larger front sprocket got about 65mpg on a cross country trip riding my wife and I.

peace and grease,
-fang

Didn't mean my comment as a attack or anything fang.  I doubt that water would physically get into the carbs it just occoured to me that if that thing gets wet that material soaks up water pretty good and I was thinking at idle it might cause enough of a restriction to stall you out.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 04:16:18 AM »
Nah, that K&N filter is of the oiled variety mate, so it won't absorb any water. Quite a good mod Fangy, and should catch more cold air than the OEM box. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline wannabridin

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 10:12:28 AM »
anymore updates on the bike?  anything else left to say about this system?
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Offline MoTo-BunnY

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 04:51:40 PM »
lol.  . I love the "CR" mod! that's gotta be good for a few mph, right?  he he he (yup, that red paint is REAL slippery like. . . )

I am using a K & N filter on my 500 but it mounts to the plastic 4to1 box thingy and isn't enclosed at all, but it's between the side panels and stays nice and dry (even in rainy Orygun weather)

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Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: Pics of modified airbox.
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 06:11:04 PM »
Anyone have experience with the SS boxes that have the bigger intake opening?  I'm about to mount one of those with a K&N and wondering if its actually worth anything.
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