Author Topic: Project: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)  (Read 7537 times)

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Offline rustbucket

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A couple of weeks ago, in a fit of optimism, I bought this off ebay: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11030.m43.l1123/7?euid=38da991415124ba8a18fa86d5aaf1911&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D280560837158%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AB%3AEF%3AMOTORS%3A1123

Here are pics from the auction:




Yep, the grass is growing through the front wheel. It's a '72 engine is sitting in a '76 CB550. I also got the 550 engine in the '72 frame, and some extra parts (all as rusty and neglected as the bike).

The gentleman I got it from (whose toolbox was apparently limited to vice grips and pipe wrenches) said that it was built by a racer back in the 70's. He said its been bored to 562, has pop-top pistons (is this good?), ported and polished, all that good stuff.

Also included in the price was a sissy bar built from wrought iron fence material and plywood, and some kickin mini apes that are broken in half.

According to our friend with the pipe wrenches, it was on the road through the 70's. In the mid 80's, it wasn't looking so good, so he got the 550 complete from a friend and swapped the engine into it. It was last on the road a couple of years ago. Based on the broken fins I'm assuming he wrecked it at least once.

Since there's pretty much nothing original to save here, I'm planning to build something very stripped down (less parts to buy). I'm on a serious budget here, but I'm unemployed, so I'm hoping I can substitute time for money in getting it up and running. First on the list is a complete rebuild of the engine. I wasn't able to compression test it, but it turns over freely, so I suppose there's that good news.

So what do you guys think? Did I just waste a hundred bucks? Can this be turned into something that rides?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:32:12 AM by rustbucket »

Offline Operator

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 06:49:11 AM »
I commend you on your willingness to bring this monster back to life!!

It is after all, a Honda and they never really truly die. I like the idea of substituting money with time...

Good Luck

Operator
If ever there was a creator of bastard sons, it is the open road, for she has claimed so many young men yearning for freedom......

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1976 CB400F (Cafe Project)
1979 Yamaha XS400 (Currently up for Sale)

Offline rustbucket

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 07:06:43 AM »
Thanks man - the more I look, the more I think I'm gonna need it!

I haven't gotten nearly this in depth with a bike in the past, so it's gonna be interesting, for sure. The more I take apart, the more I realize how little I have to work with. The front brake line broke off at the bango when I took the lever off - it was rusted clean through! that little rubber boot on the end of the mc must have been holding water in...

The spokes are garbage, I think. Maybe the rims too. Fenders are too dented to fix. Chain is frozen solid. Pretty much anything that can suffer from sitting out has. I'm hoping there will be better news when I get the engine apart. I'm choosing to think of all the bad stuff as optional... ;)

Offline HedNut

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 08:04:35 AM »
You can do this man!!!  Good luck with sourcing cheap/no cost parts that you need and you can have your way with the rest!!
AWESOME! Hats off to you man!!  You can make this a mean-road tearin' machine for sure!!
Cheers!

Offline Really?

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 08:46:57 AM »
Q. The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)

A. A possible love affair!
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline the technological J

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 09:45:58 AM »
why are u digging into the engine? if it turns ok u should be in good shape.... 550 gasket sets are are around 100 bucks... does it look like theres any oil seepage around head gasket? i would try to see if u can get her to fire on some starting fluid and that will tell u if u at least have spark....

Edit: that head gasket wont be cheap if its specialized might be more than the above mentioned 100
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 09:47:41 AM by thegabrielj »
70 KO...sold to fund the ST http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88800.0(Alpha)
74 Kaw 250 Enduro http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=124278.0
K4 added to collection! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104784.0
78 750K... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60257.0 (Omega)sold to fund the K4
94 ST1100..Gone
72 750 K2 Stay tuned!

Offline wardenerd

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 09:54:19 AM »
my experience with my 77 is that most of the stuff you mention will have to be replaced or repaired no matter what you pay.  35 year old chain ,sprockets, master cylinder, hoses lines,wires calipers cables, all of it will be replaced within 18 months.  one advantage to a running bike is you get to ride it til the next thing breaks.  walking does get old though

Offline rickmoore24

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 10:17:43 AM »
YOU GOT THIS! Take your time and see where you can get without dumping cash, then assess the situation and aquire the necessities to get her going. There are TONS of cheap used parts out there. Good luck!

Rick
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1972 CB750 K2 (Sold)
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Offline rustbucket

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 01:30:37 PM »
Wow. Thanks for all the kind words guys.

thegabrielj: In retrospect, I should have left it together to try to get it running, or at least see where I stood on spark. I knew going in that it was a project, and I guess is was a little too excited about getting into it.   :-\ I have basement space, but no garage space until spring, so even if it was perfectly good, I wouldn't have anywhere to put it!

It looks like the headgasket was leaking, and there's a lot of gunk on the oil pan, so I'm guessing there was another leak too. I've got lots of time, so I'm going to take it down to the cases and put it back together myself. I know I'm going to be in for the cost of gaskets and o-rings, but it'll be a learning experience. I've got a buddy nearby with a parts washer, and another with a sandblast cabinet which needs to be refurbed. I'm thinking I'll get the blaster fixed up and go to town.
 
I started ripping it apart today. I only have crappy cell phone pics - a real camera is in the works. Gas tank came off and got drained - it's gonna have to get coated, but it's usable. I have a nice big trash pile including the bars, seat, fenders, battery, most of the electrics (corroded and cracked; I'll solder up a new harness), dead battery, airbox (which was being used as tool storage!), etc.

The carbs came off - dude was using velocity stacks with bug-catchers but no filters. Is that a problem on these older bikes?



I'm ready to pull the engine tomorrow - then I'll really know where I stand.

I ordered this gasket kit off e-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380269281776&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_986


Offline zanorak

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 06:51:31 PM »
Hmmmm.... sounds like he had a coolant leak! HAHA! :D

I wish you the best, and I'm kind of jealous. You're unencumbered by any "classicness" of your project. Chop, weld and paint to your heart's desire!

Offline the technological J

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 08:41:02 PM »
I ordered this gasket kit off e-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380269281776&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_986

your gonna need a new head gasket, if your bike is truley over bored, then the head gasket wont work but i would wait and measure your cylinders and order one accordingly
70 KO...sold to fund the ST http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88800.0(Alpha)
74 Kaw 250 Enduro http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=124278.0
K4 added to collection! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104784.0
78 750K... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60257.0 (Omega)sold to fund the K4
94 ST1100..Gone
72 750 K2 Stay tuned!

Offline rustbucket

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 06:56:02 PM »
Alrighty - I got a bunch done today! Broke a few things, but the important thing is how many things I didn't break, right? Right?!?

I got pretty far along tearing down the engine today. The only thing that stopped me was that I didn't have a puller bolt for the alternator rotor. That's on it's way, so I'll be back in business when it shows up!

So here's what I started the day with:


Yep, it's got moss growing on it. This would have been a great time to take it outside and hit it with a bunch of engine brite, but that didn't occur to me at the time. Lesson learned - clean your engine before you take it apart!

A few more beauty shots:




You get the idea.

Started taking things apart, and discovered a few interesting things:
-I'm guessing this engine spent some time sliding down the road. The cooling fins on one side of the head are broken, and then there's this:

and this:


-The guy who put the cam cover on was maybe not paying full attention. There was a bolt missing, and one of them is stripped in the head - time for some helicoil action! The threads from the head are still on the long bolt. Speaking of which, is that bolt supposed to be longer than the others?




Moving along, I got the cam cover off:

Looks pretty good to me. What do you guys think?
Some detail shots:



I don't seem to have any pictures of the rockers, but they look okay to me. They'll get checked per the manual though, just like everything else...

Next up, taking off the head! Lookit that - another missing bolt! Maybe that's why the head gasket leaked...
I don't plan to use this head because of the broken cooling fins. Pistons look oversize to anyone?

Cylinder bores look pretty damn good.


Pistons off:
Stock 550 bore is 58.5mm, so we're aiming for bigger than that to validate the 562cc claims...

Neat!
Here are some detail shots of the pistons:


Anyone know what the story is with them?

Taking a step back, I learned a valuable lesson while taking the pistons off. When the manual tells you to stuff a rag somewhere so you don't drop things into it, you should stuff a rag in there! I covered up the holes while removing the first three pistons, but I figured I was so good at it by the fourth that I skipped the rag. Tink! One wrist pin circlip into the cases! I guess I'm really splitting them, now... A bunch of crap got in there that should have been washed off before starting the process, anyway.


So, I have a few questions...
I'm assuming I should replace the cam chain guide & tensioner? The guide showed some wear, the tensioner almost none... How about the cam chain itself?
Should I replace the wrist pin circlips?
How about the piston rings? The manual has a check to see if they're still good, but it seems like most people are replacing them.

In case it's not totally obvious, I have no idea what I'm doing here, so any suggestions or comments would be much appreciated.

Next up, the rest of this engine, split the cases, pull apart my spare motor for the head. I'm gonna need to locate a machine shop to check the cylinder bores for me. I'm hoping to get away with a cylinder hone.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 09:25:35 AM by rustbucket »

Offline rustbucket

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 06:59:16 PM »
Hmmmm.... sounds like he had a coolant leak! HAHA! :D

I wish you the best, and I'm kind of jealous. You're unencumbered by any "classicness" of your project. Chop, weld and paint to your heart's desire!

I'm actually pretty stoked on that aspect of the project!

I'm still kicking around ideas, but it's not gonna look stock, that's for sure! I figure the engine is the first priority, then I can get serious on fabrication.

Offline the technological J

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 07:17:34 PM »
are u keeping track of what piston comes from where? u should prob try to.. if your on a budget u could get away with a hone.... your gonna have a tough time finding rings... well cheap anyway... so try to keep them in the shape u need... i would just clean off all the carbon and polish the domes and the exaust ports... lapp the valve be very careful to keep them in order.. what i did was poked eight holes in a piece of cardboard( two rows of 4)marked them 1 through 4 and marked one side in and the other ex.... these will be for your valves.... be very careful with this ordering otherwise you could screw up your compression and have to get the valves reseated
70 KO...sold to fund the ST http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88800.0(Alpha)
74 Kaw 250 Enduro http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=124278.0
K4 added to collection! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104784.0
78 750K... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60257.0 (Omega)sold to fund the K4
94 ST1100..Gone
72 750 K2 Stay tuned!

Offline haggeo

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 08:56:46 AM »
i did the same thing pulled the dirty engine and took it apart before cleaning it....you just get so excited to start in on the thing. I think this would be easier to read if you put all of the pictures right in the thread.

Offline Tim2005

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2010, 10:04:05 AM »
Slow down a bit!

Anyway, does that say POPY on the side of the pistons?  They'd be Yoshimura ones if so. Also your valve spring retainers are aftermarket performance items, and that cam looks to have some pretty large lobes too. Nice find!

Offline rustbucket

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2010, 11:25:04 AM »
Hehe sorry guys - I've been having a really good time. I'm gonna slow down and take stock once I get the cases split.

I'm picking up some nice workbench legs and some shelving over the weekend, so I'll finally have a decent workspace. Right now I'm working on a microwave cart. I'm fairly sure it wasn't designed for the kind of load I'm putting on mine right now (the tipoff was when the table split in the middle and the engine almost fell through. It's being reinforced with a bottle jack at the moment).


TheGabrielJ: Yeah, I have everything labeled as to which cylinder it came from.

Tim - It could be POP.Y, with the Y cut off... Do you suppose the 550 is referring to the CB550? Maybe something about the displacement of the kit? I attached a couple of pics of the pistons a valve assembly (I only took one out - testing my DIY valve remover tool). I'm assuming those are heavy duty valve springs if the retainers are aftermarket. I'll get everything measured up soon - I have a decent caliper, but I'm gonna borrow a mic from a machinist buddy of mine for some of the more precise measurements. Thanks for the info! Since I'm not planning to use that head, I'm assuming I'll want to move the springs and such over to the other one.

I was putting links to some of the pictures because they're coming out so darn big in the thread. I'll just use IMG tags. Anyone know how to get them to display a little smaller without permanently resizing them on photobucket?

Lesson of the day - wear shoes while working on motorcycles. A CB500 frame may seem light when you're moving it around, but dropping it on your bare toe increases the perceived weight tremendously.

Detail shots of a piston:










And a valve w/springs:

Offline the technological J

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2010, 09:46:12 PM »
why arent u planning on using that head? it may be ported to allow a better flow... i would investigate
70 KO...sold to fund the ST http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88800.0(Alpha)
74 Kaw 250 Enduro http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=124278.0
K4 added to collection! http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=104784.0
78 750K... http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60257.0 (Omega)sold to fund the K4
94 ST1100..Gone
72 750 K2 Stay tuned!

Offline bradweingartner

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2010, 09:58:33 AM »
JEALOUS! $100 for a built motor and a bike attached  ;D

Offline Alan F.

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2010, 07:16:20 PM »
In photobucket, when you resize a photo you have the option of replacing the original or saving as a copy. Likely you can rename the copy noting the resize.
Cheers

Oh and great score for $100, you can do this.  Get to know your local members, there are lots of parts around to trade.  Whats your location?
Alan
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 07:19:14 PM by Alan F. »

Offline Old75_ratafe

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 01:41:01 AM »
Awesome score, hey just a FYI unless that's a really good micrometer most of the digital have a +, - 1 variance.  What parts do u think u might need I might have a lead on the suspension and comstars off a 550 (cheap).
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Offline rustbucket

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2010, 06:32:59 PM »
I've been visiting my folks in CT for the weekend, so no progress to report. I'll dig back in tomorrow night.

TheGabriel - the head that I pulled from the '72 engine has a few broken cooling fins on one side. I have a '76 engine for parts, so I was going to pull that head and use it. Any reason not to do this? I figured I'd swap the cam and valve springs over to the '76 head, and give it a mild port, polish and gasket match...

Alan - I'm in Somerville, MA. I just moved up here a few weeks ago, so I'm looking forward to meeting people that are local here. :)

Old75 - Thanks for the info man - I'll start measuring stuff up! I need to do some thinking on the direction this project is going to go. I had originally planned to hardtail the frame, but it seems a shame to put a performance engine in a hardtail, so I'm rethinking that plan. I definitely want to go for spoked wheels though, so I'll pass on the comstars. I'll definitely let you know when I start collecting parts, though!

Later,
Josh

Offline thehammer

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 06:49:13 PM »
I have a 550K motor that is siezed. I assume it would need to at least be taken apart and lapped to make it work, but im not sure what it looks like inside. The fins are there tho. PM me if you need something

Offline captaincrash80

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 09:47:03 PM »
That's a helluva find man. At least the guy you got yours from wasn't lying when he said that it had been built. The first one I bought was supposed to have an 836 Weisco kit, hi-perf cam, etc. When I got the head pulled it turned out that it was bone stock (and not nearly as complete as the parts bike you got)  >:(

But I digress....

With the amount of knowledge floating around this site, the number of members willing to help, a little elbow grease and a smidge of luck you should have a runner in no time. Get to it!!  ;D

-Crash

Offline Alan F.

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Re: The Hundred Dollar Special (what have I gotten myself into?!?!)
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 06:09:30 AM »
Alan - I'm in Somerville, MA. I just moved up here a few weeks ago, so I'm looking forward to meeting people that are local here. :)

Well then Josh you've gotta go join up at www.nehondaguys.info it's where the local members hang out. Lots of parts floating around, and tons of know-how to share too.  I'm just up 93 from you, and there are lots of other members scattered around the surrounding area.
Welcome!
-Alan
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 04:46:12 PM by Alan F. »