Author Topic: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics  (Read 5678 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
'96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« on: December 03, 2010, 11:59:32 PM »
I'm trying to diagnose problems in a bike I may buy from a shopmate. I've poked around on a KLX 650 forum, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to brainstorm here, as there seem to be lots of fart smellers... uh, smart fellers around here.

The bike: The bike is a 1996 KLX 650 R. DOHC, 4-valve, plated cylinder, single. The R model is kick-only, so Kawasaki included the "KACR" which is a centrifugal weight actuated (Kawasaki) Automatic Compression Release that holds one of the exhaust valves open a hair until 500 RPM or so when the weights open and deactivate it.

My buddy hasn't had the bike long, and has been saying it needs rings since he got it. He's selling it and I want it (assuming it's not a total money pit), so I started looking into it and suspected the ACR. I pulled the valve cover, and though the pins that the centrifugal weights hinge on are worn (which is apparently common), it appears to be working properly. However, I decided to check valve clearances while there, and found that NONE of the valves have clearance between the cam lobes and the shims (bucket and shim). I pulled the cams and did a leak down test (crude without gauges) and found air to be leaking past the rings and valves, seeming worse at the rings. This was with the cams not installed and valves as closed as they could be. For what it's worth, I also did a compression test like this and got 70 PSI, but this is with no intake charge of course, so I don't really know what I should expect to see.

SO... it seems that if I buy this bike I will need rings and a valve lap if not a valve grind. My thinking-out-loud question is: should i expect that the valve seats are battered if the valves buried themselves until the gaps were closed at the cam? Should I expect that the nikisil lining will be worn and need re-plating? I've never had a bike with a plated cylinder(s), I only know that they are in theory supposed to last much longer.

could this really be as simple as a valve lap, rings, and correct shimming?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 12:01:06 AM by paulages »
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline Old Scrambler

  • My CB750K3 has been in 39 States & 5 Provinces
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,810
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 01:12:09 PM »
I'm with you on the conclusion........but the risk says don't pay too much! I ride an XR650L so have no direct experience with KLR. Also, check the head gasket for any VERY MINOR leaks.  Seldom seen but can put pressure on crankcase oil if near a stud.
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
'77 750F2 Cafe Project
2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan

Offline gerhed

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,801
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 12:58:53 PM »
Not exactly on topic
but I took the engine out of a Honda XL600R
and put it in a Honda CB360 frame.
The thing is almost unridable but looks
stylish in the corner of the garage!
Those big thumper engines look good no matter
where they are.
Rides: 75 CB750F, 48 Indian Chief, 67 Triumph TR6, 63Honda CA95
          83 XL600R in CB360 Frame
          3-wheel electric tilting cycle

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 01:13:04 PM »
Not exactly on topic
but I took the engine out of a Honda XL600R
and put it in a Honda CB360 frame.
The thing is almost unridable but looks
stylish in the corner of the garage!
Those big thumper engines look good no matter
where they are.

Nice! I love the BSA tank.
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 04:42:02 AM »
well, i went for it. I took a gamble and hoped that it would be an easy fix, and it seems that I made a good call. The cylinder walls look perfect, and the piston to wall clearances are great and totally uniform. The rings are at the end of their service limits, but upon reading the manual I discovered that 75 PSI is in the GOOD range of normal.

In any case, the intake valves are sealing fine, but the exhaust valves leak. i pulled the valves and there is lots of carbon built up on the seats and in the exhaust port. I think what happened is that the exhaust valves got tight, and when the clearance ran out carbon built up on the seat... because the valves weren't closing.

So it looks like a valve lap (might spring for a re-cut), rings, and gaskets will put me on the road with a new dual sport.  :)
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,027
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 04:46:09 AM »
Good job mate, about time you had some good luck, how goes the leak curing with the slightly stretched 500?
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 04:58:41 AM »
Good job mate, about time you had some good luck, how goes the leak curing with the slightly stretched 500?

I got the leaks cured, but broke an APE HD cylinder stud off in the case. I haven't even tried to sort it out since it happened, which was a few months ago.  :P
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 05:13:24 PM »
I got this together last night, and have been blasting around on it since... man, this bike is so much fun. The tally and repair: $500 for the bike, $100 for rings and gaskets, $30 for a valve job (seats reground and valves re-faced), and another $20 or so in spray paint, etc. Not a bad bike for $650!

The frame was purple, the plastics kawasaki green, and the tattered seat purple and white. I painted the frame, re-covered the seat, painted the plastics, sandblasted and painted the pipe, and got the engine back together. Looks much better now...

paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2010, 10:00:36 AM »
Time to tear up some lawns!
No.


Offline paulages

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,876
  • 1976 cb735
    • DOOMTOWN RIDERS P.R.M.C.
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2010, 11:29:03 AM »
Time to tear up some lawns!

I've already been hitting all of the overgrown alleys in the neighborhood. I took a route through Overlook that's all gravel/mud/grass/blacberries, and somehow I ended up at my destination with slug guts all over my left rear side cover..
paul
SOHC4 member #1050

1974 CB550 (735cc)
1976 CB550 (590cc) road racer
1973 CB750K3
1972 NORTON Commando Combat
1996 KLX650 R

Offline mlinder

  • "Kitten Puncher"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,013
  • Stop Global Tilting now!
    • Moto Northwest
Re: '96 KLX 650R low compression diagnostics
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2010, 12:16:59 PM »
I luff slug guts.
No.