Topic: turn signals and brake light

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Whats goin on guys and gals,

Ok. here's my little problem. I've got an 1980 cb650 and the horn no worky. The turn signals no worky and the brake light no worky. The headlamp comes on, and the turn signals light up, but when you hit the signal switch the bulb goes dim and does not blink. This all started two days ago. I left the bike on accidently while cleaning it, and the battery died after a while. Took it out yesterday started it up, and the above mentioned started to happen. I'm a complete retard when it comes to electrical stuff, so I thought a post might help out a bit.
Jay

[clarkjh]

sounds like you might have a short under the seat, or a bad ground.  I would start a the lights and trace the wireing back to the connections and check for corrosion.  I don't think a fuse would just drop the back and leave the front.

James

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

I've go a clymer is this a good enough wiring diagram to follow? I've heard they aren't the greatest.

[Phaedrus]

Gobs of wiring diagrams on this site.  It has helped me out in the past.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/MCwiring.php

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Ok. I just got a multimeter and have no idea how to use it on this bike. James above had said to start at the headlight and trace it back. This is a dumb question, but what setting should i use and which lead goes where??? I'm a complete noob when it comes to electrical work and the tools that come with it.

[clarkjh]

If it's just your tail lights or rear blinkers (winkers, for the UK group ) then check your ground at the light and under the seat where the wires connect to the main harnes.  Set your meter to 12V DC, then turn your lights on and see if you have power at the connectors under the seat, green should be ground (usally black on the meter) your live wirers are usally the other three wires, the color codes will be in the diragram.  If you have power there then you shouldn't have to dig into the "rats nest".  Hope this helps.  I am no wirering/electrical genius, TwoTired is usally good with the electrics.

James

[TwoTired]

I looked at the wire diagram on the link posted above.

Have you checked the fuses?

I see a fuse on the diagram that powers brake lights, turn sigs, and horn.

The Diagram says you have 4 fuses.  But, I don't know the physical arangement on your bike.  But, if a fuse is blown and it blows the replacement too, then there is a Green/blue wire that I would check for grounds along it's routing.

What make/model meter did you get?  Any pics of the front of it on line somewhere?

Cheers,

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Here's the a link to the one that i bought. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=03482411000
I also, noticed that when i turn the key to the right, the brake light does light up. But it won't light up when i hit the front or rear brakes. I'm going out to check the fuses, and under the seat.

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Also, where do i stick the probes? (no funny stuff guys  )

[TwoTired]

Okay, you have an analog type meter.
You'll be using the 1k ohm setting to measure ohms or continuity but only when the circuit is disconnected from power.

When the circuit is powered, you will be using the DCV 50 setting.  Use the meter scale number row that ends with 50.

If you want to chase where power is or isn't distributed in the wiring, attach the black negative probe to the battery minus terminal.  Then anywhere you put the red probe, the meter will show a voltage on the scale.  Try it on the battery plus terminal and then on each end of the fuse terminals with the ignition switch on.  You should read nearly the battery voltage (two ticks over 10 on the 50 scale) on those clips.  If one end is dead, you have a bad fuse.

If you wish to verify the fuse has no continuity with your meter.  Either disconnect one of the battery terminals, or remove the fuse from it's holder, change your meter to the 1K ohm setting and place a probe at each end of the fuse.  A good fuse will cause a meter deflection near zero on the scale, a bad one will show no movement or near infinity on the scale.

Let us know what you find.

[byidesign]

Just wanted to ask this one.[cause I did it}
   did you clean the bike off, by using a water hose?
       if so most of it may involve drying it all out
     i.e. handlebar switches ,ignition switch and the connectors.
      {compressed air works well,} I did that many years ago
    on my 650, It did funny electrical things for days.......
      never did that again!
               hope it helps
                        Bruce
       

[Vatch]

nice explanation twotired (+1), and no probe joke.  I agree, check the common fuse a nd common volrage feed for the mention no worky parts. 

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Ok, so I check out the "fuse" (which the P.O. apparently made himself) under the right side cover. No continuity in that. I also checked the switch assembly (don't know if i should have) This thing has  four prongs that an electrical connector goes into. The first two read approriately on the meter, the ones in back of those did not. I tried to go the the local autozone, and ace hardware store in search of a replacement fuse to no avail. I guess i'll go to the stealership tomorrow (since they are not open on mondays). Anything else I should check in the meantime?

p.s. Twotired, Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the process for me. I do appreciate it greatly!

[DammitDan]

Just making sure, but I had a similar problem on my bike, with the blinkers not blinking and taillight working with no brake light.  Turns out the blinker relay behind the battery cage was broken, and everything that's switchable on the bike runs through that.  Went to Autozone and picked up a new electronic relay (old one was analog and took 3 seconds to activate the blinkers) for $5 and it fixed the problem.

Is this the "fuse" you're talking about under the right sidecover?  It's shaped like a fat D-Cell battery with some electrical connectors sticking out of the end of it.  It should also click when your blinkers/brake light operate.

 - Dan-0

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

It's in the fuse box, and is what a plugs connects to on the top of the box. (when you pull that plug out there are four prongs that are showing). I've got a link to a parts list, its under number 11. And looking at it now, it does look like a d cell battery...
Here's the link http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/oem_schematic_view~schem_dept_id~211526~section_dept_id~1~section_dept_name~OEM+(Stock)+Parts~dept_type_id~2~model_dept_year~1980~model_dept_mfr~Honda~model_dept_id~206275~model_dept_name~CB650.asp  (hope that works).
Dan, did the relay look the same as the stock one?

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

just in case that other link didn't work here is the unit i was refering to albeit, its upside down in the photo.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/81-HONDA-CB-650-CB650-C-BATTERY-RELAY-SOLENOID_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35594QQitemZ4622034696QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[DammitDan]

No, actually the part I'm talking about is #15 on that first diagram, the "RELAY ASSY.,WINKE"

(Almost) all of the switchable electrics on this bike have to go through that relay.  It fits into a cylindrical rubber sleeve back BEHIND the battery box, and faces out to the left (when standing behind the bike).  You should be able to pull that out and take it to your local Autozone and 95% of the time they will have something.  It's just a little mechanical switch thingie, and if it's broken then nothing will work right.

Everything you've described so far sounds exactly like the problem I was having with my bike.  Horn wouldn't work, blinkers wouldn't blink, and brake light wouldn't light up.  Those relays seem to break for no good reason.

Unless of course I'm completely wrong...    Any other opinions?

 - Dan-0

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Went out and got the replacement relay, and i'm still having the same problems. The headlight lights up, as do the front turn signals, but the front does not flash, and the rear just doesn't come on. The brake still comes on when the key is turned to the park position... could it be with the battery relay?

[my78k]

Was reading back a bit at the original post and you mentioned that the battery had drained. You do not mention doing a full charge on the battery? It may just be my interpreting how you wrote it tho...did you just boost it or did you do a full charge?

The reason I ask is that the relay needs a certain amount of voltage to "heat up" and then trip to have it actually blink. The bike at idle will not produce enough voltage without drawing from the battery. Even with the bike off the blinkers may not work with a battery that is depleted.

Just thought I'd bring it up...I am having intermittent issues with mine as well but seems less of an issue when I do a full charge on the battery (I am assuming I am losing power due to a drain somewhere in my circuit and once the battery drops even a bit I lose blinkers) I have to trace mine out and hunt for any exposed wiring...

Dennis

[TwoTired]

Went out and got the replacement relay, and i'm still having the same problems. The headlight lights up, as do the front turn signals, but the front does not flash, and the rear just doesn't come on. The brake still comes on when the key is turned to the park position... could it be with the battery relay?

Have you verified yet that all the fuses are still good?

[Vatch]

Having a battery with a good charge is the best starting point.  Then checking that all the fuses is a good next step.  If with battery connected and ignition on the fuse in question is not blowing then you probably don't have a short, which is good, and the likely only have a loose or broken connection either in the "switch thingy" (technical jargon) or between the switch and the battery.  Start at the battery checking for voltage with battery connected or continuity (with Ohms) if battery is disconnected and keep moving the test probe past each sequential piece of wire or switch until voltage or resistance (ohm's) drop off. Just a process of elimination as you go along the circut as shown in the Repair Manual.   Just make sure the bike battery is disconnected if using the Ohm setting on the meter or you may find yourself buying a new meter. 

Tracing electrical problems can be frustrating.  Just convince yourself as you go along that each wire and switch is working and you'll find the culprit.  It takes a little time to be thourough, but you'll find the problem.  Cheers.

[cb650]

Sounds like some one hacked it to bits.   The fuse block on a 80 should be on the handlebar clamp. Main 30 amp under the left side cover.




           Terry

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

 cb650, the fuse block is under the handlebar clamp, and the main fuse under the left side cover... i guess we messed up typing somewhere. (thanks for setting me straight though!)

The horn is now working due to a bad fuse, but the rear section remains the same.
The battery was fully charged after i ran it down.
There is a brown and white wire under the fuse box that isn't connected in the block. I have no idea where it goes as the wiring diagrams make no sense to me.

[TwoTired]

The horn is now working due to a bad fuse, but the rear section remains the same.

There is a brown and white wire under the fuse box that isn't connected in the block. I have no idea where it goes as the wiring diagrams make no sense to me.

I can read the diagrams.  It's up to you to chase things down on the bike, though. The brown w/white wire powers the instrument lamps and the front running lights.

Since your symptoms have changed, perhaps you should restate the problems you still have.

Have you checked the stop light bulb? It is dual filament.  One filament in a run light, the other the stop light.  It is possible only one filament is broken.  Do you get a brake light from the pedal operation and/or the front lever?

Which bike is this again a Cb650C?

Cheers,

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

It's a '80 650.
The bikes rear section isn't working. The brake won't light up with either the pedal, or the lever.

I'll go check the buld in the back again. I didn't realize it was a two filament.

What I have checked so far is the wiring box under the fuse box, and I can't get readings on the top left of the box, and the bottom right. (both have wires in them). The others with wires I can get proper readings on.

I checked the box with the main fuse (under the left side cover), and two of the four prongs (in the box) have power, the other two don't.
The connector right before it leads under the rear fender isn't showing any power.