Author Topic: 2034 - '78 CB750K  (Read 7450 times)

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Offline cookindaddy

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2011, 01:16:18 AM »
Some call this part the "jugs". Honda calls this part the cylinder (singular) pn 12100-300-060.

But I understood what you meant perfectly.

Looks to be in good shape. Any more "spare parts" found?
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline liPPy

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2011, 09:38:58 PM »
You did not get the "block" off , you got the cylinders off.




Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2011, 10:05:47 PM »
You did not get the "block" off , you got the cylinders off.

Oh, I thought that was referred to as the "cylinder block".  Anyway, whatever it's called, I'm glad it's finally off. I've stagnated on this project because it was giving me fits.

Hey cookindaddy! Good to hear from you! No new spare parts found! To date, it was 4 loose 10mm nuts. The three tappet nuts were found under the valve cover but I haven't found the home for the one from the oil pan. Everything has looked pretty good internally and I've even second guessed myself with continuing with the engine tear down.  But I'm staying the course. The pistons are off now and splitting the cases is just around the corner so I can't see NOT doing it. If that 4th nut does have a home in the bottom and I didn't check it out, put it back together and hit start.......  I can't imagine how angry with myself I'd be.....

liPPy - Thanks for the laugh, I needed that..... ;D
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 10:22:57 PM by GRock »

Offline mrbreeze

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2011, 10:36:54 PM »
I hope you find a home for that missing nut dude!!! Nothing sucks worse than not bein' sure when you build a motor..............be thourough and good luck with your build.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2011, 02:20:24 AM »
You did not get the "block" off , you got the cylinders off.

Try going into the Hipo Section and telling Mike Rieck that his billet aluminium blocks are not blocks.....

Yes , it is commonly referred to as a "Block", the cylinders live inside the block....
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 06:13:36 PM by Retro Rocket »
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Offline honda_jason

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2011, 03:48:16 PM »

Offline lucky

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2011, 03:53:15 PM »
Check all of your valve tappet adjusters under the small round covers on the valve cover and see if you are missing a nut up there.They have been known to come off  ;)

Well ekpent, you hit the nail on the head. Good call!! Bad news is I discovered that THREE tapet adjusting nuts are missing  >:( - where are the other two?  I'm thinking we're one the same page when I say there still in the engine somewhere. Damn!! I was hoping for a little something less involved and do a rebuild later but it appears that's not the way it's going to be. (sigh) Well I guess I better start thinking about investing in Hondaman's book.

Cookindaddy - Looks like I'll be cleaning out more than the sump!  ;D


If you take the clutch out you can get into the bottom of the crankcase with a magnet.
Could be worse.
At least you found one of the nuts.
I think someone forgot to tighten them .
They do not come loose very often.
Usually someone is adjusting them and gets distracted by Video,TV, ot cell phone and comes back the next day and forgets where they were.

Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2011, 07:43:51 AM »
Hey Lucky,
     Are you thinking the last nut came from the clutch? I wasn't planning on taking the clutch because on page 1B-11 of Hondaman's book it makes it sound like it's optional (as far as how it relates to splitting the cases).  If it's optional and i don't remove it, I don't need to buy the $43.60 tool to get it off. :) Furthermoore, if it's not broken, I don't want to break it by removing and basically screwing with it when I don't have to.

Offline lucky

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2011, 04:56:00 PM »
Hey Lucky,
     Are you thinking the last nut came from the clutch? I wasn't planning on taking the clutch because on page 1B-11 of Hondaman's book it makes it sound like it's optional (as far as how it relates to splitting the cases).  If it's optional and i don't remove it, I don't need to buy the $43.60 tool to get it off. :) Furthermoore, if it's not broken, I don't want to break it by removing and basically screwing with it when I don't have to.

You DO NOT have to take apart the clutch.
And that nut removal tool is available on Ebay for $20 something dollars.
You just put the socket on the end of a hand held impact driver.

But you do not need to take apart the clutch,or the engine cases as long as the trans shifts ok.  Just take care of the top end and replace those OEM nuts with grade 8 nuts. Or order the OEM Honda nuts if they are not reuseable.

Looks like the nuts are all from the rocker arm tappet adjusters.

Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2011, 08:22:38 PM »
     $20.00 on EBay is good to know and it's good to know I don't need to take that clutch nut off to split the cases. Thank you for clarifying that for me. I wouldn't, however, be comfortable NOT splitting the cases to make sure there are no more spare parts. Am I being overly cautious? I think all 4 nuts are tappet adjuster nuts, but only three tappets were missing them. I just can't figure out how one found it's way to the cam chain tunnel to get to the bottom.  I think a P.O. was careless. There is evidence that the engine was removed once before because the mounting bolts are wrong. If he/she was careless enough to loose one nut, who's to say there aren't nuts 5 and 6 waiting for me.
     I don't know, it probably will end up as something I don't need to do but I'll sleep a lot better if I do. Plus, I'll learn something! :)

Offline MorePDX

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2011, 10:07:13 PM »
Man, I feel lucky that the only mystery part I've found was a float bowl screw sitting on top of the transmission.  Of course, I haven't looked too closely at the engine yet!  Keep up the good fight, GRock! :)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!  -my dad

Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2011, 09:39:34 PM »
       A milestone has been reached! The cases are split! Didn't find any spare parts but I'm glad I did it anyway. Plus after I clean all the dirt and grease off of it, it's going to be 50 lbs lighter!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 07:58:21 PM by GRock »

Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2011, 07:46:43 PM »
A question for those of you that have rebuilt your engines; how much wear on the 12mm rocker shafts is acceptable? Some of mine are measuring in the low 11.9's. Has anybody reused 11.8's?

Offline lucky

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2011, 08:46:08 PM »
     After about a month, I decided to get a move on and I picked up some carb rebuild kits from S.C.I., s.s. boot clamps from Carpy and a air filter off of ebay. The air box doubled as a mouse house for God knows how long, the internal ribbing is pretty chewed up. After I would soak the carb parts in chem dip over night, they would look pretty good. However, for some reason (I don't remember why) my neighbor, who is a jet engine mechanic, took them to work and sonic washed them for a day and a half and he said all kinds of crap was coming out of the various passages when he would blow them out.

Sorry wrong thread. ooops!!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 12:29:19 PM by lucky »

Offline theofam

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2011, 09:09:40 PM »
Once the cases are split, do the internals simply lift out?  It almost looks like they're kept in place by the journals created when the cases are mated.

Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2011, 06:31:56 PM »
     Sorry Theofam, didn't see this, I've been busy with other tidbits that life likes to throw at you.
     Anyway, yes; you're right, the internals on the engine side of the cases do lift out once they are split. On the transmission side however, it looks like you have to pull them out of the side. Haven't gotten that far yet. When I do get a minute or two to play with it, I've been doing wear/clearance measurements to see what I should replace and what I can reuse.

Offline SKTP

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2011, 04:25:30 PM »
I'm about to put my engine back together...a tranny question: Some of the gears look the same on either side...is there a left and a right side for the symmetrical appearing transmission gears or am I missing something?
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
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Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2011, 07:47:48 PM »
Hey SKTP, wow, didn't mean to leave you hanging. I'm betting your tranny is back in business but I'm no where near the point of reassembly. So I basically don't know the answer. I would think just for wear sake, they should go back the way the came. What did you end up doing?

My cases are getting sonic washed this week so I'm thinking about the cylinders. One of them has what look likes surface rust but you can't feel a thing when you run your fingers over it. I'm hoping I can, at the most, just re-ring the pistons and not do anything to the cylinders. Maybe even use the old rings. As you can see in the picture, the cross hatching is still visible from the factory so I'm thinking very little wear.  What do you think?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 07:52:48 PM by GRock »

Offline lucky

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2011, 07:17:50 AM »
     After about a month, I decided to get a move on and I picked up some carb rebuild kits from S.C.I., s.s. boot clamps from Carpy and a air filter off of ebay. The air box doubled as a mouse house for God knows how long, the internal ribbing is pretty chewed up. After I would soak the carb parts in chem dip over night, they would look pretty good. However, for some reason (I don't remember why) my neighbor, who is a jet engine mechanic, took them to work and sonic washed them for a day and a half and he said all kinds of crap was coming out of the various passages when he would blow them out.

When they are filled with fuel (on the bench) you should be able to actuate the throttle and see fuel squirt out of all four brass tubes in the venturi. If not you will need to replace or clean the bottom plate on the accelerator pump. Otherwise they will never work right.

Do a search on that on this forum.

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2011, 07:34:14 AM »
I'm thinking about the cylinders. One of them has what look likes surface rust but you can't feel a thing when you run your fingers over it. I'm hoping I can, at the most, just re-ring the pistons and not do anything to the cylinders. Maybe even use the old rings. As you can see in the picture, the cross hatching is still visible from the factory so I'm thinking very little wear.  What do you think?

I think you might want to try a couple of passes with either a "Bottle Brush" cylinder hone or a fine scotchbrite pad to see if the surface rust is removed easily. Then carefully examine the pistons and rings to decide where to go from there. Looks like the rust will clean up easily without the need to re-bore. I would be inclined to re-hone and re-ring but using the old rings is definitely a budgetary decision. If I wanted to experiment, with the understandind that if it didn't work that I would have to pull the cyliders back off to re-ring, then I would put it back together and hear it run. Only costs time and a few gaskets to try the original rings. These engines are pretty hardy and mine has tolerated a lot of abuse and neglect, which may qualify me for the future moniker "Damn P.O.!".

Keep us posted!
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
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Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
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Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2011, 02:09:41 PM »
Hey SKTP, wow, didn't mean to leave you hanging. I'm betting your tranny is back in business but I'm no where near the point of reassembly. So I basically don't know the answer. I would think just for wear sake, they should go back the way the came. What did you end up doing?

My cases are getting sonic washed this week so I'm thinking about the cylinders. One of them has what look likes surface rust but you can't feel a thing when you run your fingers over it. I'm hoping I can, at the most, just re-ring the pistons and not do anything to the cylinders. Maybe even use the old rings. As you can see in the picture, the cross hatching is still visible from the factory so I'm thinking very little wear.  What do you think?

There's actually quite a bit of wear showing there: when you can see where the rings reverse direction like in the top picture, it's worn. You can take a hone with long stones (3" long) and run it for a minute or two (with light oil) and then it will highlight all the worn areas for you. Be sure to constantly move the hone up & down in the bore as you do so you don't wear it in just one place.

Once you've done this surface honing, and can see where the most wear is happening (which will be the top ring's spot), you continue to hone until the whole cylinder is even and no more of these marks are visible. Then wash the bore clean, remove the piston's rings, and insert it upside-down into the bore until the end of the skirt is perched at the point where the top ring used to be outlined in the bore. The piston must be aligned as it it had the wrist pin in the rod, so the widest part of the skirt is toward the front and back of the engine. This is the point where you want to now measure the bore wear by sliding feeler gages in between the bore and the skirt at the end of the skirt, by lifting the piston skirt up out of the bore, sliding the gage in with it and pushing it down to the wear spot, then try to pull it out. If it comes out easily, go up one size on the feeler gage and repeat. When it finally traps the feeler gage, the clearance may be considered to be one thickness less than the 'stuck' one.

If you have more accurate ID bore gages, it is far easier to measure the wear at the ring site, though. You just put them in at the site, then measure the gage with a micrometer. (All these steps are shwon in my book, for the novice. ;) )
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline GRock

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Re: 2034 - '78 CB750K
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2017, 09:15:43 PM »
Hey folks, it's been 6.5 years since I last posted and I've been holding on to this bike in the hopes that I might have a change of heart. But it's not happening and I'm basically giving this build thread a boost for the next owner. Hopefully he/she will pick up where I left off and actually get it back on the road. Thanks for everything, I've enjoyed the experience but in the end it comes down to I don't have business riding a motorcycle. Some people just shouldn't be on a bike. I hope you understand.

Good Luck and Godspeed,
Greg