Topic: roller or needle bearing for a swingarm?

[cb(r)]

I have been  back and forth on the dual shock/ monoshock swing arm thing. I have a cbr 600f1 swingarm  which I modified that has both needle bearing and roller bearings.  needle on one side and rollers on the other.  not sure why honda did this?  now I am in the process of building a whacked out  proto type  mono shock swingarm of my own.   I am currently using roller bearings for this prototype.

here is the questions:

 if I can successfully make a mono shock swing arm for my 550k what would be better, needle bearings or roller bearings? and Why?

thanks in advance for your 2 cents.

[bill440cars]

               I'd be interested to know about the possibilities of a monoshock conversion myself.
      I don't know that I'd be able to do one but, I find it interesting. Later on, Bill

[crazypj]

Rickman brothers did a lot of testing in the 70's with different types of swing arm bearings. Needle bearings have lower friction, line contact, more bearing surface than deep row rollers (point contact) or taper bearings. No side location (use needle thrust bearings on ends) Taper roller bearings have side location and low friction but need careful adjusting and can get hammered (damages bearing tracks from narow bearing surface very small line contact). Bronze bushings worked best for Rickman frames as they gave more support to swing arm pivot and didnt wear as fast as the other types.
All of them have pro's and con's.
PJ

[cb(r)]

Rickman brothers did a lot of testing in the 70's with different types of swing arm bearings. Needle bearings have lower friction, line contact, more bearing surface than deep row rollers (point contact) or taper bearings. No side location (use needle thrust bearings on ends) Taper roller bearings have side location and low friction but need careful adjusting and can get hammered (damages bearing tracks from narow bearing surface very small line contact). Bronze bushings worked best for Rickman frames as they gave more support to swing arm pivot and didnt wear as fast as the other types.
All of them have pro's and con's.
PJ

thanks for the info.  Here is the thing. On the cbr swingarm it has needles on one side and on the other side it was a double row of straight ,not tapered roller bearings.  just like the ones you would see in your wheel hub. 
I like the needles bearing but I have a couple dozen of the straight roller bearings.  would you know If I could get by with these these straight bearings ?  single or double row like in the cbr?  they are also sealed soI would not need to use a shaft seal.

[cb(r)]

               I'd be interested to know about the possibilities of a monoshock conversion myself.
      I don't know that I'd be able to do one but, I find it interesting. Later on, Bill

well bill I do not know if I can pull it off either but it is going to take some time.  like I said i am modifying an old swingarm while also trying to make another one from scratch.  I will definitely keep you updated if this works.
 

[bill440cars]

                   Thanks cb(r), I appreciate that. Later on, Bill

[dusterdude]

im interested in this also.

[crazypj]

[

thanks for the info.  Here is the thing. On the cbr swingarm it has needles on one side and on the other side it was a double row of straight ,not tapered roller bearings.  just like the ones you would see in your wheel hub. 
I like the needles bearing but I have a couple dozen of the straight roller bearings.  would you know If I could get by with these these straight bearings ?  single or double row like in the cbr?  they are also sealed soI would not need to use a shaft seal.

I think, (only think, my opinion) that Honda used deep groove ball bearings as they are very low friction compared to other types of bearings. I cant remember where I read it but, as a swing arm moves through a limited arc all the wear is in one place. I'd say use it and keep an eye on swing arm. One advantage of ball bearings is that it forces you to make swing arm pivot tube larger diameter which will be stiffer and also give more surface area to weld to.  You will still need some sort of side location though. They will probably last at least a couple of years before replacement is needed and ball bearing are much easier and cheaper to change.
PJ

[cb(r)]

[

thanks for the info.  Here is the thing. On the cbr swingarm it has needles on one side and on the other side it was a double row of straight ,not tapered roller bearings.  just like the ones you would see in your wheel hub. 
I like the needles bearing but I have a couple dozen of the straight roller bearings.  would you know If I could get by with these these straight bearings ?  single or double row like in the cbr?  they are also sealed soI would not need to use a shaft seal.

I think, (only think, my opinion) that Honda used deep groove ball bearings as they are very low friction compared to other types of bearings. I cant remember where I read it but, as a swing arm moves through a limited arc all the wear is in one place. I'd say use it and keep an eye on swing arm. One advantage of ball bearings is that it forces you to make swing arm pivot tube larger diameter which will be stiffer and also give more surface area to weld to.  You will still need some sort of side location though. They will probably last at least a couple of years before replacement is needed and ball bearing are much easier and cheaper to change.
PJ

thanks again.  I am going with rollers for the mock up.   I think if the half a$$ mock up this week goes well then I am going to leave the needles as an option.  if I use the cbr swing arm I have no choice but to use the combo of needle and roller.  thanks again for info and opinions.