Topic: Yellow rod bearings discontinued at service honda?

[q2418130103p]

Hey Guys, I apologize if this has been discussed before.

I just checked service honda and yellow rod bearings has been discontinued (13218-426-003).  They are not listed as discontinued at Beaverton.  I am guessing beaverton either hasnt updated their listing, or they still have some in stock.  Anyone know whats up?

[q2418130103p]

bump?

[HondaMan]

Sub in the Green instead. The Yellow were the most common in brand-new engines. There is only 0.0002"-0.0004" difference between sizes, so even if you started with 0.0012" clearance, you'll still have adequate oil clearance. I do this on some rebuilds, simply because the engine has broken in and the surfaces are already polished.

[q2418130103p]

Sub in the Green instead. The Yellow were the most common in brand-new engines. There is only 0.0002"-0.0004" difference between sizes, so even if you started with 0.0012" clearance, you'll still have adequate oil clearance. I do this on some rebuilds, simply because the engine has broken in and the surfaces are already polished.

Is it worth getting the yellows if I can source them?  Or should I just not bother.

[scondon]

Sub in the Green instead. The Yellow were the most common in brand-new engines. There is only 0.0002"-0.0004" difference between sizes, so even if you started with 0.0012" clearance, you'll still have adequate oil clearance. I do this on some rebuilds, simply because the engine has broken in and the surfaces are already polished.

Is it worth getting the yellows if I can source them?  Or should I just not bother.

Yellow(thinnest)
Green
Brown
Black(thickest)


This is the order of color/thickness of the bearings. Green is the next step up from yellow, and on a 30+year old engine might even be the wiser choice(my opinion). I just received a full set of greens so I know they still make them.

[q2418130103p]

Gotcha.

How about for the crank?  My crank codes call for 2 sets of green and 3 sets of yellow. Should I follow those codes, or go all green.  I understand that after I plastigaue the bearings I may have to change them anyway.

[scondon]

Yeah, that's the drawback of the whole process. You have to buy new bearings then plastigauge them to see if they're even the right size. Two options I've used:

 One is to by two sets of rod, and two sets of crank bearings and use them to plastigauge all your journals and rod ends, then buy remaining according to your findings.

 Second option is to go one size up on everything(green and brown in your case), and buy it all at once. Plastigauge just to make sure nothing is too far out of spec, and call it good. As Hondaman pointed out, the size difference is very minute.

[q2418130103p]

Yeah, that's the drawback of the whole process. You have to buy new bearings then plastigauge them to see if they're even the right size. Two options I've used:

 One is to by two sets of rod, and two sets of crank bearings and use them to plastigauge all your journals and rod ends, then buy remaining according to your findings.

 Second option is to go one size up on everything(green and brown in your case), and buy it all at once. Plastigauge just to make sure nothing is too far out of spec, and call it good. As Hondaman pointed out, the size difference is very minute.

Thats a good idea, I could buy a set of greens and a set of browns for testing.  I guess I could probably just buy the greens and browns and sell them to someone for half price if needed.  I do have some bore gauges so I suppose I could actually measure everything if I wanted to, except I dont think they will reach the middle one.

On a related question, I have always wondered, is it normal to plastigauge all the crank bearings at once, or are they supposed to be done individually?  Which would take for ever...

Oh yeah, one more thing, why did they have to make the rod cap nuts so close to the cod cap?  I dont have a single socket with a thin enough wall to take them off.

[scondon]

Mrieck taught me the trick of grinding the tip of a 12mm socket in order to fit on those rod nuts. Doesn't take much, and you end up with a conical shape on the end of the socket.

I plastigauge the crank bearings 2 or 3 at a time. I'd do them all at once, but keeping track of all those little slivers of 'gauge can be a pain

EDIT: When grinding the 12mm socket also grind the face of it flat. The sockets are often a little rounded at the opening and this can cause a loose grip/bite on a shallow bolt head.

[q2418130103p]

Mrieck taught me the trick of grinding the tip of a 12mm socket in order to fit on those rod nuts. Doesn't take much, and you end up with a conical shape on the end of the socket.

I plastigauge the crank bearings 2 or 3 at a time. I'd do them all at once, but keeping track of all those little slivers of 'gauge can be a pain

I've got a whole drawer of crap sockets that I can grind down, so thats perfect.

So there is no problem doing all the gauging at once, besides keeping track of the measurements?

[scondon]

I can't think of any reason not to 'gauge them all at once. Would save time, and less wear on torquing those aluminum threads in the case.

[HondaMan]

Mrieck taught me the trick of grinding the tip of a 12mm socket in order to fit on those rod nuts. Doesn't take much, and you end up with a conical shape on the end of the socket.

I plastigauge the crank bearings 2 or 3 at a time. I'd do them all at once, but keeping track of all those little slivers of 'gauge can be a pain

I've got a whole drawer of crap sockets that I can grind down, so thats perfect.

So there is no problem doing all the gauging at once, besides keeping track of the measurements?

MRieck's a smart guy, full of good advice. 

I'm a luckier guy: I have Honda's OEM KOWA T-handle socket wrenches that were designed just for these Fours. (That's my famous "I'm a snob" line.  ) They fit everything, just like they were made for it.

Oh...

[dave500]

1/4 drive six side socket should go straight on the cap nuts.

[q2418130103p]

I made a 3/8" drive socket fit, and I added it to my pile of special sohc stuff. It now sits right next to my rotor puller 'tool', and primary shaft puller 'tool'.

[q2418130103p]

I had the bores for the crank measured at a machine shop.

From the factory the cases were stamped BBAAA
The crank was stamped 11111

The machine shop said the cases were all AAAAA, and in fact they were almost below the minimum for A.  I believe they measured them just to the left and the right of the oil hole, as opposed to vertically.  He was rather concerned about how oblonged the cases were.  I seem to remember that being soimething to be expected.

The crank measured out to 2, 1/2, 2, 1, 2.    I say 1/2 because that bearing measured exactly on the border between 1 and 2.

So that is Yellow Green Yellow Green Yellow.  Does that sound good, or should I just go with greens across the board for this as well?

[q2418130103p]

Bump, can anyone offer some insights about my last post? 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

If it were me I'd use the stamped markings then Plastiguage.

[q2418130103p]

Oddly, the stamped marks call for 3 sets of yellow and 2 sets of green as well, just in different places.

[MRieck]

This is for the 550 right Jay

[q2418130103p]

This is for the 550 right Jay

Yeah

[MRieck]

Like Mark said I'd just use greens. The black bearing are also no longer available for that engine if i remeber correctly.

[q2418130103p]

Like Mark said I'd just use greens. The black bearing are also no longer available for that engine if i remeber correctly.

I think Mark was referring to the rod bearings, I am going to get all greens for that since yellow aren't available.

A few posts back I switched to talking about the main bearings, sorry for the confusion, yellows are still available for the mains, but I was a bit concerned about the machine shops reference to oblong-ed bores and the fact that they said the bores had tightened up rather then loosened (which seems odd to me).

[q2418130103p]

In case anyone is interested, to re-cap:

My measurements:
Case     AAAAA     (Measured by machine shop)
Journals 21212      (measured by me)
Rods     1111        (stamped)
Pins      BAAA       (measured by me)

Yellow rod bearings are again available at service honda, so I figured I would use them.

For rods I got:  Green Yellow Yellow Yellow
For mains I got: Yellow Green Yellow Green Yellow


The order probably doesnt get entered until tomorrow in case someone wants to talk me out of my decision.

In either case I will certainly plastigage everything as well.

[q2418130103p]

Service honda called me the next day and said the yellow rod bearings were discontinued.  Its weired, the first time I looked at their site they said discontinued, the second time I looked they were listed.

[bryanj]

Don't sweat it I build them with all black and tell the owner to RUN IT IN for 3,000 not just the Honda "Bed it in" for 500