Author Topic: Precious Metal Spark Plugs  (Read 8355 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Clutch Cargo

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« on: April 05, 2006, 05:24:06 AM »


I was watching one of the car makeover shows last night on The Learning Channel and caught a commercial for Denso spark plugs.  Like a well trained TV watcher, I walked over to my computer and went to the web site advertised – http://www.densoperformance.com/

Denso offers an Iridium plug for the SOHC 750 – IX24.   Further searching found the cost of these plugs to be in the $ 13.00 range (each).

Based on the Iridium propaganda at Denso site, these plugs have a lot to offer to weak ignition system like the SOHC 750.

My questions for the forum is -  Who is running precious metal plugs – Iridium, Platinum, etc. and are they worth the cost?  Please share the manufacture, part number, cost and satisfaction level.

Mike
1976  CB750K6
1976 GL1000
1994 - ST1100
1985 - HRS21

theunrulychef

  • Guest
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2006, 05:31:13 AM »
The guys over at Cycle Exchange are apparently running NGK iridum plugs with good performance.

mk0094@hotmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2006, 06:29:46 AM »
so are they worth 13$ a pop? or just a scam for a 13$ spark plug?

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,597
  • Big ideas....
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2006, 07:19:01 AM »
 I run Denso iridiums in my 3 bikes and 2 cars. I guess that says something.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 07:27:09 AM by MRieck »
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2006, 07:23:39 AM »
iridium is the real thing. You can get the ngk iridium for about 11 a plug or so somewhere. they are supposed to make very efficient use of ignition voltage which is always a good thing on our old timers.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2006, 08:55:02 AM »
for me to spend anywhere from 40 to 50 dollars on a set of plugs,they damn well better last forever.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2006, 09:04:48 AM »
HTey are supposed to last for a while. they are expensive but do increase the combustion efficiency of an engine which generally means saving gas. while 10 years ago, gas was cheap and it would not matter, these days of 2.50 a gallon or more, well I bet they would pay for themselves over time. Course I have not plunked down the cash for a set, been waiting for them to drop in price a bit. they will, even the platnums did after a couple of years.

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,036
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2006, 07:14:29 PM »
Well...speaking as the Electrical Engineer that I am....I researched plugs and plasma so I could be satisfied about the hype. Here's the truth:

1. Precious metal plug tips (platinum, iridium, unobtanium) last longer against spark erosion. Period. No other things are true unless the electrode design changes. Copper center electrodes control heating better than non-copper ones, and last longer, by spreading the heat more quickly across the plug.
2. Electrode design has FAR more to do with boosting "spark performance" than does materials. This is because the tip size of the plug either concentrates the plasma (smaller tips) or spreads the wear over a larger surface (normal plugs). The smaller the "tip" in use, either end of the plug, the easier the spark can concentrate and jump the gap. This is the way plasma works under pressure. The precious metal plugs often (not always) have smaller tips, which improves performance, while the metals reduce the erosion.
3. Coil current controls spark consistency. When points are new, the maximum current flows through the coil during the "charge up" portion of the cycle (points closed). This makes stronger sparks when accelerating. When points deteriorate, this current drops off, and the spark becomes weaker, most noticeably under acceleration and at high RPM. A plug with smaller tips will fire better under these circumstances, so it appears to "last longer" than standard plugs.
4. Resistor plugs should always be used when the coil and wires feeding it are the type designed for resistor plugs. If non-resistor ones are used in this situation, the coils will get extra hot and the wires will begin to burn themselves out, increasing their resistance. The spark duration will be shorter, too, because the plug's current is too high for the coil. Conversely, resistor plugs should NOT be used if the system was not designed for them, as they will reduce the spark's ability to jump the gap. The difference in these systems is in the "tuning" of the inductance of the coil and condenser in use, and they should not be mixed up, lest performance decrease. Some later-model CB750s used resistor-plug systems, K4 and earlier did not.
5. Finally, if you drive a lot in town, seldom at 60+ MPH, try using plugs with "extended reach" tips. In the CB750, this is the "-L" series, like "D8ES-L", or the "-U" series (if these are still around) in the ND plugs. These tips can be measured, if you want to test your findings: stick a thin wire down into the bottom of the insulator and measure its distance. Compare to another plug of the same heat range, but difference "suffix" numbers. For example, if both plugs are the "8" range, but one is the "-L" series, it will be 0.5mm to 0.85mm longer inside.This is a "hotter" tip.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2006, 07:28:52 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline jaknight

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 637
  • ....Round Town Ride......
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2006, 11:39:36 PM »
WOW HONDAMAN!!

     Not that I am a Whiz Kid,....... but,...... IF the Karma thing was still around, and IF I had a high enough score to do so,......... I would certainly give a Karma point for your posting here.......

     Fascinating......... 8)

     ~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~
"THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD........
..........EXCEPT IN A SWORD FIGHT"
___________________________________________
"There is nothing new under the sun.........But there are many old things we do not know"
BIBLE ---> Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

Offline crazypj

  • I'm brill, me
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,467
  • first 100,000 miles. 1977 CB550F
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2006, 12:12:52 AM »
I had almost 45,000 miles out of a set of NGK platinum plugs. They have a small centre electrode and concentrate the spark.
Also fitted Pirhana ignition system.
Even with the 591cc motor and bigger main jets it would get around 41mpg average.
PJ
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2006, 12:13:27 PM »

Offline Clutch Cargo

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2006, 05:53:19 PM »
Well, I'm sold on Iridium! .....But,

upon further investigation, the recomended Denso Iridium part number for the SOHC 750 - IX24 -  is a resistor plug.

Mike

1976  CB750K6
1976 GL1000
1994 - ST1100
1985 - HRS21

Offline Clutch Cargo

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2006, 08:23:11 PM »
Denso IX24 and NGK DR8EIX both have 5K Ohms of resistance.   Looks like one would have to convert to non-resistor plug caps to off set the plug resistance.   

I'm going to cheap out with DP7EA-9's

Mike
1976  CB750K6
1976 GL1000
1994 - ST1100
1985 - HRS21

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,380
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2006, 08:38:11 PM »
For two sets of Iridium plugs, Z1 Enterprises will sell you a new Dyna S ignition. For $129.00, they will increase your spark performance markedly over your crappy points, and they'll last longer than your bike. I know what I'd prefer! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Sam Green Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,070
  • I REALLY? hate black rims.
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2006, 09:07:24 PM »
Well, I'm sold on Iridium! .....But,

upon further investigation, the recomended Denso Iridium part number for the SOHC 750 - IX24 -  is a resistor plug.

Mike



Mike,
4  IX24s would cost about $95 in the UK. >:( >:( >:(
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2006, 08:07:29 AM »
Gee 4 ngk's here would cost about $45. Need to buy THREE sets to get a dyna s. PLugs, here I come.....sometime.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2006, 10:00:08 AM »
Gee 4 ngk's here would cost about $45. Need to buy THREE sets to get a dyna s. PLugs, here I come.....sometime.
thats what i mean,if im gonna spend 45 bucks on a set of plugs,they better last me forever.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,380
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2006, 04:38:06 PM »
Gee 4 ngk's here would cost about $45. Need to buy THREE sets to get a dyna s. PLugs, here I come.....sometime.

Cheap-ass! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Online bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,133
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2006, 04:04:08 AM »
OK heres my 2c worth Back in 197? I ran a 500 four with twin discs and reved it to 12-13,000 i first 3 gears for 3 years and the damn thing still wouldn't go bang!!! Anyway one day i fitted a set of NGK D7EV plugs(scored cheap from the NGK rep--A sidecar racer called Stan Dibden who REALLY knew his plugs) and 3 things happened
(1) started cleaned--chock on for less time
(2) went about 3mph faster
(3) gave about 2-3 MPG better (UK gallon not the shortchanged US one)

Now ALL i did was change the plugs cos as a full time mechanic i couldn't be arsed to service mine until the mileages called for it so it had to be just those that made the difference.
Course EV's are Platinum not the iridium but that wernt about then
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Sam Green Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,070
  • I REALLY? hate black rims.
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2006, 05:58:55 PM »
Bryan, not sure what you meant by 2c, but here's my 2 pennys worth. :D :D :D

Mid season, we changed the CRs plugs to iridium as the bike with open pipes and open carbs was fluffing up plugs on cold starts.

Although the bike is a K4, Chris had changed the coils and leads at somtime, so I'm not sure if they are resistor or not.

From cold, the bike can now be off choke within seconds as opposed to five minutes, and he knocked 8/10ths of a second off his 8th mile time.

Money well spent (in America much cheaper ;D ;D)

Sam. ;)

C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline MRieck

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,597
  • Big ideas....
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2006, 07:01:19 PM »
Bryan, not sure what you meant by 2c, but here's my 2 pennys worth. :D :D :D

Mid season, we changed the CRs plugs to iridium as the bike with open pipes and open carbs was fluffing up plugs on cold starts.

Although the bike is a K4, Chris had changed the coils and leads at somtime, so I'm not sure if they are resistor or not.

From cold, the bike can now be off choke within seconds as opposed to five minutes, and he knocked 8/10ths of a second off his 8th mile time.

Money well spent (in America much cheaper ;D ;D)

Sam. ;) Wow Sam....I didn't know he gained that much....in an 1/8th! :o


Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Sam Green Racing

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,070
  • I REALLY? hate black rims.
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2006, 10:31:41 PM »
Mike, I have just checked and it was just a bit under,.... but not alot,   0.73s + 4mph on terminal.

Sam.
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline gar

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • '75 CB550
Resistor v. non-resistor plugs ?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2006, 10:33:29 PM »
I am confused... The bike would benefit from the performance enhancement.  But I don't want any deliterious effects of using the wrong type of plug.  The Denso web site tells me exactly what plug to order, and the owners manual does not refer to resistor/non-resistor type. 

What do I need to know?  I found this blurb on an NKG page: "In nearly all cases - apart from some very old low output ignition systems - resistor spark plugs can be used in place of the non resistor versions."   I am assuming my bike with stock OEM ignition is a very old low output ignition system.   

Can I put them in...or not?
Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice.

Offline paxtonpony

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Up the Irons!
    • My Pics
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2006, 10:42:40 PM »
My .02 worth here:

Don't get hung up on pricey plugs.  If you tinker with your bikes and cars often just buy new ones every oil change or so.  I learned this from running a supercharger in my mustang.  Pricey plugs in high performance machines don't offer me enough performance to justify the price when I pretty much end up changing them at the same intervals anyway.  If you're a "set it and forget it" type of guy, these might be for you.  If you're like me and constantly working on something (and away from the wife) buy good but cheap plugs and change often.
1969 CB750K - Wrecked
1978 CB750K - Sold
1992 GS500 Streetfighter - Sold
1975 CB750F - Sold (sniff, sniff)
1994 VFR750F - Sold
1990 GSXR 750 - Sold
1999 CBR1100XX - Sold
2000 Triumph Legend TT - Bike of the week for me?
1992 Mustang - Paxton powered (12.02@115mph on street tires) and For Sal

Offline kghost

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,855
  • www.facebook.com/RetroMecanicaAustralia
Re: Precious Metal Spark Plugs
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2006, 11:44:11 PM »
Most of you guys have never seen a very old low output ignition system.   

 ;D ::) ::)
Stranger in a strange land