Author Topic: '77 CB 400F issues to be solved  (Read 904 times)

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Offline jonboycox

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'77 CB 400F issues to be solved
« on: September 03, 2011, 04:45:32 PM »
Hi, I just got my 400F running a couple of weeks ago. I am new to this and have cleaned and repaired a $250 barn find over the last eight months. It looks great, runs ok but has a few issues.
 1. The headlight does not come on. I know the bulb is good as it comes on when a jumper wire is place from the hot side of the main fuse terminal to the hot side of the headlight fuse terminal
 2. Right side rear signal does not come on at all, right side front comes on but no flash, left side front and rear come on and flashed initially but no longer
 3. Carbs need balancing, and it seems that it is running rich(a little smoke, smells gassy and drips quit a bit after shutdown from the drain tubes.)
 4. I replaced the stock North American issue bar with a lower one off of a '76 and I am looking for a pair of rearset footrests with accompanying hardware to complete the european spec look.
 5. Having a hard time bleeding out the front brake line...I squeeze and squeeze but not good enough.
If any one has any ideas/information/parts that could help me it would be greatly appreciated. I am working from the Clymer manual.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 05:31:34 PM by jonboycox »

Offline sopo400f

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Re: '77 CB 400F issues to be solved
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2011, 08:17:41 PM »
I had some odd electrical issues too, but they went away once I cleaned every single electrical connection.

I used a vacuum oil change pump to bleed my brake line. Put the hose on the end of the brake line and let her rip. Very easy.
1975 cb400f blue

Offline Bodi

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Re: '77 CB 400F issues to be solved
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 06:12:14 AM »
Congrats on the find!

Lots of stuff decays over 30 years and your issues are rather common.
Headlight: The headlight power actually passes through the starter switch, so the headlight will go off when using electric start. This switch disintegrates inside after a few decades, and I would look there first. Just bypassing the headlight cutoff works fine, the starter works about the same with headlight on anyway.
Wiring in general - if you have the owner's booklet, there should be a fold-out wiring diagram in it. If you don't have this, GET THE REAL HONDA WIRING DIAGRAM!!! This can be downloaded from various places, but these images can be of dubious quality. I can copy and send you one if necessary - whatever you do, don't rely on ANY other wiring diagram: they are all inaccurate.
"sopo400f" has the right advice - clean all the electrical connectors throughout the harness. Some are in the headlight bucket, a lot are under the fuel tank near the steering tube on the left side, some under the side covers, and a few important ones under the left engine cover. If you find some badly burnt bullet connectors (you probably will) you can try cleaning the metal parts but they should be replaced.
That done, you should find the electrical gremlins gone. If not, they will be easy to trace with no mysterious faults from bad connections.
Your carbs need a good cleaning. I would also replace the float valves and gaskets, but these parts cost about $200.00 all together from Honda. You can get "carb kits" from Sirius and elsewhere with OK gaskets but the jets should not be used unless yours are damaged, even then you should buy Keihin jets and toss the aftermarket ones in my opinion.
The float valves can be cleaned and "rejuvenated" if the needles have brass tips, if they have black rubber tips, leaking = trash.
Possibly the dripping overflows (which means leaking float valves) come from dirty gas - little bits of rust or dirt stick in the float valve. Some members here deride inline fuel filters and even blame them for fuel starvation problems but I have used them for 40 years without a problem. And my carbs have been getting clean fuel - float leaks are rare with filtered fuel.
Brake bleeding - always a problem. I've found that reverse bleeding gets the bubbles out of the brakeswitch tee best. I loosen the caliper and pump the piston out quite a ways (adding fuel to the reservoir as required). Then using a C-clamp on the caliper I force the fluid back up to the MC while keeping a rag over the reservoir to avoid spraying brake fluid over the paintwork. The bubbles want to float, so pumping them down towards the caliper is counterproductive. This way they get flushed out of the crevices in the tee and out the MC. This is basically pressure bleeding, used on most ABS brake systems. If you can get a pressure bleeding kit that's good, but you have to grease up the bleeder nipple threads so the fluid doesn't seep past as much.
Maybe I'll see you in Owen Sound some day. Keep riding!

Offline jonboycox

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Re: '77 CB 400F issues to be solved
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 11:23:58 AM »
Thanks for the great info, I should have been on here months ago!
The carbs where "professionally" redone as I broke a stubborn needle trying to get them apart to clean them. I had to have them put in the ultrasonic so decided they should take them all the way.  All of the seals, floats and needles where replaced. They sent me the old rubber and needles back as proof I guess. Any ideas on a homemade vacuum tester? They have a complicated looking thing in the Clymer guide, but it looks too cumbersome to be practical. I have been thinking about the floats however,  they where not replaced. When I turned the fuel on for the first time it was like a tap straight to the overflow lines until I tapped the bowls (gently) with a block of wood.
Great advice on the connectors, I will clean each one carefully. I should have done this earlier as I had this bike completely disassembled.(every single part except the cylinders and the crankcase.) The harness looked in great shape, but I should have circuit tested everything. Also, the start button was not functioning so I took it apart and it literally disintegrated in my hand. Maybe soldering on a new start button will get the head light working. Right now the starter will fire if the terminals on the remaining plate are connected with a screw driver, but the button mechanism is gone. Should I not trust the Clymer wiring guide? I do find it hit and miss.
I will try the c-clamp bleeding method tomorrow at the shop, I had tried forcing the brake fluid from the bleeder screw up to the MC with some vinyl tube and a 10ml syringe, but the amount of pressure was too much for the plunger seal on the syringe.
Thanks again, will update my progress on this thread!