Author Topic: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project  (Read 59899 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2012, 09:23:11 PM »
Speaking of classic motorcycle parts - any thoughts on these?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300695956518?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The same seller had a very nice looking set of Redwing shocks with red springs (Woo Hoo) but - after I googled 'Redwing shocks' I found myself back here at the forum with a discusion on how it is wise to stay away from them (with sage advice from Terry) and futher advice on purchasing Hagoon shocks.

Meanwhile - should I snap up that big bore kit or spend more on a Todd Henning kit?

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,279
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2012, 10:32:36 PM »
Yeah, give the red wings the skip Cliff, cheap rubbish, Hagon or Ikon, i think Ikon's are made in Sydney now....Ask Terry about them.... ;)

Can't help with the pistons mate..
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2012, 01:27:51 AM »
Yep, leave those Redwings alone Cliff, you can buy Hagons for the same money and get the springs powdercoated if necessary. Ikon's are great, they're made in Wodonga, but are expensive. (cheaper in the US, so work that out?)

Those pistons are probably OK, but you'll need a big bore head gasket, plus the usual gaskets. I'd feel safer with modern pistons though, the metallurgy in aftermarket stuff from the 70's was pretty inconsistant. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2012, 04:18:30 AM »

Thanks guys, I will wait until I am closer to the engine build and pick up a new big bore kit that comes with the copper gasket.

Meanwhile - I unwrapped my tank and removed the chrome side plates because I knew they were going to need re-chroming with a bunch of other stuff.



The discerning viewer will pick up on the small dings and deep scratches in the chrome, looks like I need some careful restoration work on these before I invest any money in re-chroming them.

But damn, I love the CB450K1 tank, it is going to look fantastic on the bike in gun metal grey with these chrome side panels and black rubber knee pads.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,188
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2012, 08:09:54 PM »
That CB450K1 tank has an excellent classic Vintage Honda look to it..one of a kind.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2012, 03:08:24 AM »

Agree with you there grcamna2, and I think the K1 tank looks better than the Black Bomber tank (better shaped side chrome panels).

Okay - I need to put up posts that appeal to a wider audience, so for those who like shiny things (ooh - shiny!)



Hopefully the last piece of polishing I need to do for a while - the CL450 fork lowers.

Now, for those who like lists.

Next steps:

1. Frame.
1.1. Get the Rockcity cafe racer seat pan in the mail from USA.
1.2. Take the seat pan and fuel tank down to Craig's.
1.3. Get the rear tail hoop in the frame to suit the tank and seat combo.
1.4. Take the frame, swing arm and lower triple to the powder coaters.
1.5. Assemble all bearings and bushes into the swing arm and head stem.

2. Forks.
2.1. Get the new fork seals in the mail from USA.
2.2. Assemble the forks.

3. Wheels.
3.1. Get the front brake linkages in the mail from USA.
3.2. Get the rims and brake linkages chrome plated.
3.3. Get the hubs laced and trued into the re plated rims.
3.4. Get new tyres fitted.

4. Chrome work. Take the pile of part to be chromed to the platers.

5. Rear shocks. Buy some (probably Hagons).

Okay - once all parts are here, powder coating is done and re-plating is done, I can then assemble a rolling frame. This is my aim for the beginning of September, then it will be a year into the project.

Now, for those folks who like a good story.

Yesterday I got the two crankcase halves down off the shelf to inspect them, ready to start engine assembly.

I carefully cleaned out the last few corners of old oil in the cases and then had a go at removing the four broken bolts in the upper case. The first two in the side came out easy on a sharp drill bit, the drill bit got hold of the stud and the drill in reverse unscrewed the stud.

So -emboldened by my success, I moved on to the two broken studs in the edge of the case. Unbeknownst to me, these are a harder steel. So - whilst drilling into the centre of one broken stud, I managed to then break off the drill bit and leave the end wedged in the broken stud.

Crap.

I went onto the other one, and did the same thing.

Double crap.

So, with two broken studs with drill bit ends embedded in them, I tried carefully drilling around one of them with a small drill bit (no luck) and the other one I tried drilling out (no luck).

At this moment in time - there is no damage to the crank case, so I am going to stop making it worse and take the case to a head repairer to see if they can get the broken stud (and drill bits) out for me.

There you are folks.

Oh I forgot - for those who like numbers...

... this project is costing me a #$%*load of money.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,188
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2012, 07:52:38 AM »
Nice looking Polish on you're CL450 front fork lowers ! How's Plastic Fantastic running and handling ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2012, 04:48:33 PM »
Nice looking Polish on you're CL450 front fork lowers ! How's Plastic Fantastic running and handling ?

Plastic Fantastic is running well, no problems so far.

i am planning a good long ride this Wednesday if I get the time away from the Runcible, and I have been invited on a three day tour, so that will surely test the bike out.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,188
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2012, 06:03:03 PM »
With mine I mounted my reg./rect. unit outboard w/ a custom bracket to the pass. footpeg mount...they get real hot behind all that plastic on that model,that and reconnected my engine ground straps..they spray the frame from the factory w/ a tough clear coating & it needs scraping off for the ground straps to make 100% connection;it made a good difference. ;)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 06:39:59 AM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline cben750f0

  • nothin draws attention like a classic bike!!
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,612
  • '75 CB750F0 Gladstone NQLD OZ
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2012, 01:01:17 AM »
im in for the ride=)


peace
you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2012, 01:51:02 AM »
G'Day Cliff, it looks like you're having fun mate, re: the busted studs with the busted drill bits therein, the drill bits will be more brittle than the studs, so try using a sharp punch and a hammer to break up the remains of the drill bits. Some engineers can remove the unwanted pieces of metal using a spark erosion machine, but it's very expensive, so better if you can chip the drill bit pieces out with a hammer and punch. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2012, 05:16:02 AM »
Thanks Terry - I will get myself a suitably fine tipped punch and try chipping them out.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2012, 01:55:25 AM »
No worries Cliff, I'm not working tomorrow but it's gonna be horribly cold, so I think I'll stay in bed! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #88 on: April 24, 2012, 02:28:19 AM »
No worries Cliff, I'm not working tomorrow but it's gonna be horribly cold, so I think I'll stay in bed! ;D

Hah! Army reservist tough guy!

I got my fork seals in the mail today, so I get to rebuild a pair of CL450 forks tomorrow.

Any idea where I can go and buy 600ml of SAE 10W-30 on Anzac Day?

BTW - I am taking my crankcase with the two busted studs in it up to the 'Head Job Head Shop' in Newland's Road Coburg on Saturday to organise spark erosion stud removal...

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #89 on: April 24, 2012, 02:49:18 AM »
Hey they don't call us "WOFTAM's" for nothing Cliff, but as I come from a long line of (real) sun bronzed ANZAC's, in their honour I intend to do something that they fought and died for in those terrible conflicts that shaped our nations history, I'm gonna stay in my nice warm bed and watch the dawn service in the sort of comfort that would make a Nazi jealous! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2012, 03:58:54 AM »
Okay - apart from the fact that I am pretty sure that the Anzac's fought and died before the Nazi party ever came to power - I get it.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2012, 04:16:03 AM »
Ha ha, and back to your question about who'd be open on ANZAC day, apart from the Nazi's at Aldi, any servo will have engine oil, (that's what 10W-30 is, we didn't have no fancy single grade fork oils "back in the day") but you might prefer a heavier grade fork oil like a 15W, which larger servo's may carry. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2012, 02:40:08 AM »
I got some 10W-30 from Repco this afternoon and rebuilt the forks.



I then dug out the old engine stand I made to pull the engine apart on, and I bolted the lower crankcase to it, installed the oil plug and one new oil seal.



So I have officially started the (long slow and frustrating) engine rebuild.


Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2012, 03:39:31 AM »
Nice work mate, obviously you had a more productive day than me. My work car was broken into overnight, so apart from the rain, (which the car's interior is full of, thanks to the smashed passenger side windo) that put a real "Damper" on my day, and as the weather was so crappy, I didn't even venture out to the garage to install all my cool new BMW parts. Ah well, I will have gotten over it by Saturday.......... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2012, 03:59:43 AM »
Nice work mate, obviously you had a more productive day than me. My work car was broken into overnight, so apart from the rain, (which the car's interior is full of, thanks to the smashed passenger side windo) that put a real "Damper" on my day, and as the weather was so crappy, I didn't even venture out to the garage to install all my cool new BMW parts. Ah well, I will have gotten over it by Saturday.......... ;D

That sucks man, I hope Saturday is better for you.

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2012, 03:16:54 AM »
Today's progress.

I cleaned up the rims on the wire wheel (just took the loose rust off) so the chrome plater can get a good look at them. The outsides are very good, but the inside of the rear rim worries me a bit. I will have to wait and see.

I then started assembling the gearbox. Wow - this was fun, getting the kick start assembly back in and working right was tricky. The two main gear assemblies dropped in easy. I have found that I am missing two 'Gear shift drum pins' (part number 24421-200-000) so I will need to go hunting for those little pins.

Photos of the assembly:





All new oil seals as I go. The bearings are spot on, like brand new so they will be fine.

Now - on the subject of cranks. Mine is still intact, but I see from the manual drawings that they do come apart. So...

1/. How do you get them apart?

2/. Do I need to pull it apart to replace bearings and get some refinishing done on the crank, or can I just put it back in?

3/. Bearing in mind I plan to install a big bore kit, is there work to be done to the crank that will require me to pull it apart?

All advice appreciated.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2012, 03:49:04 AM »
In the absence of any advice from a 450 expert Cliff, you've got a "built up" crank, with ball and/or roller bearings. To separate the crank you need to take it to an engineer to be pressed apart, then install new rods (if necessary) and bearings, and have it pressed back together again.

It's really important that you get an engineer who knows what he's doing (Jeff at Ace could probably recommend one) as you don't want the crank halves re-assembled slightly out of "phase". Apparently David Silver Spares stock all the bits you need, including rods, rollers and roller cages. Don't go cheap and chicken out, you don't wanna pull that thing apart again. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2012, 04:05:51 AM »
Aw c'mon Terry - you seriously telling me to get the crank pulled apart and new rods and bearings installed?

(Sigh) oh well...

Man - I better find someone who can do it first and get a quote off them before I go spending $$$ on the parts at David Silvers.

UPDATE:

Hey I found the solution!

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb450k0-black-bomber-general-exportusa_model14564/crankshaft_13000283010/

For that money I would expect a free return first class ticket to go collect it.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 04:25:37 AM by maduncle »

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,323
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2012, 05:12:17 AM »
Ha ha, you'd really have to be a 450 lover to spend that kind of money mate, but like you say, take it to an expert first and see what it needs. After your F2 experience, you want to make sure you build a bike that goes as well as it looks. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

maduncle

  • Guest
Re: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2012, 05:17:07 AM »
I am thinking of taking my engine down to Dynobike in Moorabbin, they have done some very nice classic bike engine rebuild work.