Topic: Cross Winds

[wardenerd]

Yesterday I rode home into the face of a rising thunderstorm which eventually dumped a bunch of rain.  I was fortunate that I remained dry.  The wind was gusting and swirling and I was moved around in the wind that was gusting to 40MPH..  My 650 feels like the bike is being blown out from under me in a swirling or cross wind.  Is this normal or am I just a crappy rider?

[andy750]

Normal on any bike. Worse on fully faired bikes.

[KeithB]

I can't know if you are a crappy rider    but the wind can be a #$%* sometimes.
Even on a big  700 lb St1100, I have found wind conditions that can test my 30 years of riding experience!

[70CB750]

Wind does not care how long you ride. The worst is combination of cross wind and tractor trailers.  Crossing Germany we had quite few scary moments on the Autobahn.   

[CoachDoc]

Normal on any bike. Worse on fully faired bikes.

Maybe worse on the same bike faired vs. unfaired, but the fully faired large touring bikes are ten times more stable in cross winds than our SOHC's. All that mass gives them far greater stability inherently.

Agree ++ that these middleweight bikes all are unstable when winds gust. Also the rain grooves in the California freeways make riding an unsettling adventure with our narrower tires.

[nancy]

Here in NZ we have just had about 2 weeks of gusty winds and my daily commute into the city for work on my fully-faired Triumph in 40 to 50mph gusts did get uncomfortable...bordering on a bit nervy. However I find the CB750 to be worse....maybe the riding height and the higher centre of gravity make it so?
There are many techniques to help with wind riding but the key ones seem to be: dig your knees into the tank, head down and arse back, feet on the pegs on the balls - not your mid-step, let go of your death grip on the handlebars - and hold them ever so lightly - so the bike can move separate from your body, apply cross-steering back and forward left and right to sort of "tack" into and away from the wind before it hits you by surprise.
DON'T: suddenly back off the throttle in a gust - no matter how scared - keep the gas on...to provide a counter force agin the wind....and DON'T overtake large cages, trucks etc without a lot of care - as wind effects suddenly change...or you can be blown into them. Pass big trucks when u have a spell from the gusts maybe behind a belt of trees ... or drop right back and give them time to move away from you. Don't be a hero. The big trucks can be as much a threat coming at you from the other direction in big winds...they blow over...at least they seem to over here.
Regards
Mark

[heffay]

My wife hates riding in cross winds.  She ends up going like 40mph and getting buffeted all over the place.  Going slower just makes you more unstable.  The more forward momentum you have, the more you are like a knife through butter.  Just give yourself plenty of room from other vehicles and stay on the side of the road and closest in the lane to where the wind is coming from.  The most I've ever been moved by wind is about a full lane and that was with 70mph gusts coming off the Rockies toward I-25, luckily I was where I was supposed to be.  Just stay prepared and in a spot on the road to allow for sideways movement.

[TwoTired]

Normal on any bike. Worse on fully faired bikes.

Why would you say that?  Aerodynamically, it doesn't make sense.  The sidewind air drag is far greater on a standard bike than one that is fully faired.  Fully faired bikes have the air deflected around the bike.  While all the features of an unfaired bike give far more opportunity to present drag loads from all the protruding bits where wind energy is trapped.

If you are saying that some fairings have more drag than others, then I can certainly agree with that.
And, I can agree that crosswinds will effect ANY bike's stability.

[bollingball]

Hey I don't like storms no matter what bike. My wife thinks when I lean left she is supposed to lean right

                                                Ken

[heffay]

Hey I don't like storms no matter what bike. My wife thinks when I lean left she is supposed to lean right

                                                Ken

Teach her to ride so you don't have to put up with that #$%*.  I hate people on the back of my bike, that's why they only have ONE seat each.

[MrGardman]

Hey I don't like storms no matter what bike. My wife thinks when I lean left she is supposed to lean right

                                                Ken

Yup...I know that problem well myself...

[Rgconner]

Normal on any bike. Worse on fully faired bikes.

Why would you say that?  Aerodynamically, it doesn't make sense.  The sidewind air drag is far greater on a standard bike than one that is fully faired.  Fully faired bikes have the air deflected around the bike.  While all the features of an unfaired bike give far more opportunity to present drag loads from all the protruding bits where wind energy is trapped.

If you are saying that some fairings have more drag than others, then I can certainly agree with that.
And, I can agree that crosswinds will effect ANY bike's stability.

Flat surface area exposed to the wind is going to push the bike around than turbulence around a protruding bit.

I think it also matters how the windshield fairing is attached. If the fairing is attached to the frame, like the Goldwing, it is much less likely to cause an issue.

Add-ons that attach to the steering column do cause problems as the side buffeting becomes steering input.
 
Although taken to the extreme, like a Dustbin fairing, will greatly increase the side profile and make the bike uncontrollable, which is why they were banned in the 50's by the FIM.

[robvangulik]

There's one trick I haven't heard here yet, and that is to drop down one or two gears  in high winds. The crankshaft is by far the heaviest part of a bike, and the faster it turns the more it will act as a gyroscope and stabilize the bike. Try it, you will feel the difference!

[bollingball]

Rgconner Dustbin fairing ? Got any pics.

heffay To many other benifits while we ride to get her a bike

[70CB750]

Interesting point and I will try it.

Its not just motorcycles. My ragtop Jeep in strong wind feels like sailboat. It gets moved from side to side with gusts too.

Who got killed by wind gust, Caraciolla?

[TwoTired]

Flat surface area exposed to the wind is going to push the bike around than turbulence around a protruding bit.

For me, I think it is about energy  transfer.
It takes more energy to absorb or convert wind energy to turbulence than to simply deflect it with less turbulence.

There are lots of "protruding bits" in an unfaired bike.  Which is also a reason why it takes to much extra HP to push the bike to higher speeds on an unfaired bike.  Side loads are no different, aerodynamically, the more bits that can be stopped or catch the wind and convert it to turbulence the more kinetic energy is taken from the bike to change the wind behavior.  This manifests itself in un-commanded side motion of the machine.

Shape matters.  The fully faired shape must present a neutral center of force to the machine and the oncoming airstream in order to keep the steering neutral.

I think it also matters how the windshield fairing is attached. If the fairing is attached to the frame, like the Goldwing, it is much less likely to cause an issue.

Add-ons that attach to the steering column do cause problems as the side buffeting becomes steering input.

Quite true.  IF the wind load transfers directly to the steering mechanism, both side load energy and whatever is transferred to the steering mechanism effect stability.

When I put the Vetter windjammer on my CB550, I dreaded all the horror warnings about crosswinds.  When I eventually encountered high cross winds, it was certainly no worse than before.  And, if anything, it felt even more stable.  The Vetter IS frame mounted.  But, it isn't a full fairing, though.  And at the time I still didn't have the lowers on it.  But, if it was weather vaning by absorbing more energy at the rear of the bike than being deflected around the fairing, it actually helped keep the bike stay in the lane rather than simply blown into the next one.

[70CB750]

Correction it was Berndt Rosemeyer. Carraciola refused to drive in that wind.

[Rgconner]

Rgconner Dustbin fairing ? Got any pics.

heffay To many other benifits while we ride to get her a bike

http://tinyurl.com/789yeer

[nancy]

In any case - back to the original poster - yes,  we too feel as though the bike is being blown out from unda us...but you need to believe IT WON'T...the winds would have to be damned strong to blow you out and over. They will shift your mass to the left or right by a foot or so...but correction with cross steering helps alleviate some of that. Over time, I have learnt that I am safe and can handle wind gusts up to 50mph without much fuss and constant wind of around 35mph. I know I can ride above that, but safety prospects start to decline.
 :)I check the online Metservice and see what wind strength it shows and decide whether to take the Honda, the Triumph or the Ford to work!

[Duke McDukiedook]

My fully faired VFR750F is way worse in crosswinds than my naked CB750. I attribute it to less continuous cross-sectional area to blow against. We had a pretty bad morning a week or two ago where we had 40MPH+ southerly winds and a particularly bad spot at a valley and overpass sent me across an entire lane when it was a point where left and right merges meet on the road (and it is the start of an interstate belt road). Luckily no one was merging from the right side otherwise I woulda been screwed. 

[Retro Rocket]

Normal on any bike. Worse on fully faired bikes.

Why would you say that?  Aerodynamically, it doesn't make sense.  The sidewind air drag is far greater on a standard bike than one that is fully faired.  Fully faired bikes have the air deflected around the bike.

Flat surface area exposed to the wind is going to push the bike  around more than turbulence around a protruding bit.


 
Although taken to the extreme, like a Dustbin fairing, will greatly increase the side profile and make the bike uncontrollable, which is why they were banned in the 50's by the FIM.

Absolutely, the fairings give the bike more surface area and thats why fully faired bikes are effected by the wing much more than our old bikes. I had a K2 and a GPX 750 {ninja} at the same time and can say with absolute certainty that the GPX was effected way more than the K2 by side winds. I preferred riding the Kawasaki as it was far faster and more comfortable on long rides but if i had to go any distance in the wind i took the Old Honda every time....No theories here, bikes have been my primary transport for 30+ years, combine that with living near the ocean and we experience high winds quite often, riding INTO the wind is better on a fully faired bike but in sidewinds, its just hard work and sometimes very dangerous, thats why solid wheels on some Harley's are worse in the wind than spoked wheels...

[nancy]

Perhaps some fairing designs are better than others? Is that possible? Must be some explanation as to why my K2 is badder in the wind than my Sprint??? Yet Mick and Andy's experience ....is the opposite.
The Triumph Sprint has a reasonable amount of fairing baggage..but does have some nicely placed vent holes left and right mid over motor...I wondered if these help to "anchor" the bike down as they seem to deflect wind into the tunnel and down onto the engine....?
Mark

[TwoTired]

Perhaps some fairing designs are better than others? Is that possible?

Absolutely!

Must be some explanation as to why my K2 is badder in the wind than my Sprint???

My 550 is better in the wind with the Jammer on it, too.

[seanbarney41]

...before the TT/RR fairing/no fairing battle gets too intense, I just wanna say...40+mph crosswind+rain=

[Retro Rocket]

...before the TT/RR fairing/no fairing battle gets too intense, I just wanna say...40+mph crosswind+rain=

No battle Sean, just posting my experiences, bikes were my only transport for a very long time {30 years}and we have some very wild weather here, especially in the summer months. Another example, My ninja was in the shop with a warped disc {warranty fix} and they gave me a 250 ninja to ride to Brisbane {450 miles} while they ordered in new discs. Every time i crossed a bridge or passed a truck in either direction or came out of the pine forest plantations, it almost blew me across the road, i nearly hit a guard rail because of a truck on that bike, my old K2 moved around but no where near as extreme as the ninja, K2, no fairing, Ninja full fairing. Remember,  these are side winds blowing across the road from right to left. The ninja 750 was a tiny bit lighter than the K2. I have experienced this a lot as i live on the east coast of Australia and our predominant winds are due east to south east, swinging to the north east,  these winds almost always blow directly across the coast Highway {Bruce highway,Runs  North, south}, so its not a one off thing, its very common..