Topic: What to do about old soft bolts

[Tews19]

I am cleaning the engine and have realized how soft the bolt heads are for the engine. Is there a place to order a better quality or should i go to the local hardware store? Also, what is a good way to loosen them as I have been rounding a few and decided to hold off until I can get some advice..

[72500john]

not trying to sound like a rich smart arsh here but if you are going to work on old stuff like this..if not already..invest in some quaitty tools like snap on or such tools. have been making my living with them for the last 26 years and quality does count.
if you already have them excuse my last reply with my apoligies and try some good penetrating oil and heat if needed.

[MCRider]

If you're talking about the Phillips head, cover screws, there is no need for them to be stronger. Being stronger would only tempt one to overtighten them.

They are hard to get off as they corrode to the cover over age. Not much you can do about that. Chew them off and replace.

Should use a hammer impact driver to remove them and you'll do less or little damage. The occasional one will be destroyed.

A shot of penetrant at the head the night before will help. The stick occurs between the underside of the screw head and the cover, The threads are usually not the stuck part.  Tough ones you can drill the head off. That leaves a stub over which the cover will come off. Then you can usually thread the stub out by hand.

A good impact driver costs $10 to $20 and can be had at all tool stores.

[Tews19]

I did mean the Phillip heads.  Sorry about the bad explanation. I kind of figured I would run across a few. Thanks for the advice

[camelman]

You can get replacements at ace hardware, etc. They are literally called "cheese head bolts". They are pretty cheap.

[sixthwisconsin]

Tews is from Wisconsin so Cheese Head he will understand...

[Tews19]

I am not looking for a cheap fix. Lookin to find maybe even Allen bolts to replace the phillip head screws.

[Ernest T]

These are good, use anti seize with them.

http://www.allensfasteners.com/search_results.asp?PAGE=2&txtsearchParamTxt=&txtsearchParamCat=84&txtsearchParamType=ALL&iLevel=1&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&btnSearch.x=9&btnSearch.y=6

[Old Scrambler]

Tews........you are not alone............the cross-head metric case screws will usually shake loose with an impact driver.............one good way to preserve the heads for re-use is to get the proper driver tip.........in this case a metric tip.  I have been using them for years and have re-used dozens of those screws.............I got mine at a large swap meet from a tool vendor........the allen head replacements are OK but be careful............I have yet to find a vendor that makes exact length replacements for all of the various lengths.........also, the stainless units will require soap or oil to install.......... 

[Tews19]

What size metric tiP to get? I've waiting to tear into the engine

[Stev-o]

Tews, get an impact driver, it is a must! And upgrade to socket head screws if you like (I have them on my K4)

[Don R]

Get the phillips that looks correct then use the next larger size. These screws are japanese industrial standard, not phillips. I found a snap on bit that happens to fit them perfectly. Of course they don't have that number anymore. I bought the closest one and it too seems to work fine. That bit in my light duty sears battery  impact driver knocks them out so fast and easy my former bike mechanic brother can't even believe it.

[Rgconner]

Check this place out:

http://www.levelchrome.com/Engineer-PZ57-120mm-Screw-Gripping-Pliers_p_390.html

The link goes to a damn cool set of pliers made to grip those bloody screwheads. Works like a treat on other types too.

They have the JIP screwdrivers there too, worth a look.

Also, I highly recommend the wrench they sell there. Is it a MAC or Snapon? No, but it is a damn sight better than Craftsmen.

Middle range tools are hard to find these days. Cheap knucklebusters or kits costing more than the bike seem to be the only options.

The socket kits by the same company are also very nice. Support is ok, you figure that when you buy from a vendor with an indirect overseas supplier.

Lastly, there are several fellow SOHC/4ers that sell bolt kits. I got mine from Paddy Paul I believe.

That will replace all the screws with Allen heads. But, as someone mentioned, be careful, very easy to strip out the threads.

Ask me how I know.

[MCRider]

It is my position that the head of the 6mm screw is a Phillips/ISO. They do not have the JIS identifying dot on them. The smaller screws, 5mm, 4mm etc do have the dot and as such are JIS and a Phillips/ISO screwdriver will not fit them properly.

https://www.google.com/search?q=JIS+Screws&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS458&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=E5H0Tt6UB6rx0gG6zaX8Bw&ved=0CHwQsAQ&biw=1344&bih=678

JIS screwdrivers will fit JIS AND ISO screw heads properly. hence it is easy for someone who has JIS screwdrivers to think they are the proper ones for the 6mm screw. They are. But so is the ISO.

The reverse is not true: ISO screwdrivers will not fit (properly) into JIS.

You can tell by inserting the tip into the screw in question if it has a proper fit or not, by careful observation.

http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/

Particularly interesting are the comments which follow the article and add clarity to the issue. A mention is made that the 6x1.00 thread is not affected by the changes.

In the mid-60s an atttempt at unifying the different standards was made. All the threads were standardized to ISO, but some of the heads were not. A dot/dimple was added to the heads which remained as JIS. Since very few of the pre-65 non-dimpled JIS hardware survives, this is what we deal with now.  6mm - no dimple = Phillips/ISO.

I'm open for challenges on this position, but I've not experienced or read anything to the contrary. I use the standard Phillips #3 that comes with the American impact drivers and do not experience "cam out" on 6mm screws.

I've read a lot about the modern use of JIS hardware but it all relates to miniature applications like RC hobbies, electronics, etc., 5mm or less. They all have dimples.