Author Topic: CB 550 ignition problems  (Read 1726 times)

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Offline JD

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CB 550 ignition problems
« on: November 19, 2012, 12:56:21 PM »
I ve just rebuilt my CB 550 engine and remounted it back into the frame, wired it up and added fresh fuel, it started up running on cylinders 1&4 so i checked and reset the points, 2&3 had moved and shut so i reset them started up and it ran fine for about 5 minuets, then started misfiring again... :-[ went through the same checks again and the points had closed again, reset them again and checked the mounting of the point's on the back plate all seems ok the screws have a good hold, so i restarted the bike again it ran for 5-10 minuets, and then i lost the spark at the points again. the points are brand new, so i decided to refit the old set to 2&3 now the bike ran well for about 30 mins and then i lost the spark again, any idea's/help would be great,

Also, im running my 1978 CB 550 on unleaded fuel, ive not done any mods to the valve seats,but the last time this bike was on the road was 2006,( by the previous owner) is there any way i can tell if the valve seats have been modified, ive just rebuilt this engine from scratch and the valves and seats just needed a light grind to seal ive got about 85% seat.   

Online dave500

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 12:04:34 PM »
these have a hard steel insert seat standard.

Offline JD

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2012, 06:14:02 AM »
these have a hard steel insert seat standard.

thanks Dave

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2012, 07:00:29 PM »
I ve just rebuilt my CB 550 engine and remounted it back into the frame, wired it up and added fresh fuel, it started up running on cylinders 1&4 so i checked and reset the points, 2&3 had moved and shut so i reset them started up and it ran fine for about 5 minuets, then started misfiring again... :-[ went through the same checks again and the points had closed again, reset them again and checked the mounting of the point's on the back plate all seems ok the screws have a good hold, so i restarted the bike again it ran for 5-10 minuets, and then i lost the spark at the points again. the points are brand new, so i decided to refit the old set to 2&3 now the bike ran well for about 30 mins and then i lost the spark again, any idea's/help would be great,

Also, im running my 1978 CB 550 on unleaded fuel, ive not done any mods to the valve seats,but the last time this bike was on the road was 2006,( by the previous owner) is there any way i can tell if the valve seats have been modified, ive just rebuilt this engine from scratch and the valves and seats just needed a light grind to seal ive got about 85% seat.   

Maybe look at the points cam, see if the surface is rusty? Maybe it's grinding away the foot of the points? That's an odd situation...
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Frostyboy

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 05:30:11 AM »
I'd be interested to see if the bolt holding the advancer/points cam is actually secure. Check that the bolt hasn't bottomed out before it's grabbing the advancer.
Sounds like maybe it's the shaft moving away from the points rather than the points themselves moving?
Just a thought.
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
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bollingball

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 12:14:45 PM »
I ve just rebuilt my CB 550 engine and remounted it back into the frame, wired it up and added fresh fuel, it started up running on cylinders 1&4 so i checked and reset the points, 2&3 had moved and shut so i reset them started up and it ran fine for about 5 minuets, then started misfiring again... :-[ went through the same checks again and the points had closed again, reset them again and checked the mounting of the point's on the back plate all seems ok the screws have a good hold, so i restarted the bike again it ran for 5-10 minuets, and then i lost the spark at the points again. the points are brand new, so i decided to refit the old set to 2&3 now the bike ran well for about 30 mins and then i lost the spark again, any idea's/help would be great,

Also, im running my 1978 CB 550 on unleaded fuel, ive not done any mods to the valve seats,but the last time this bike was on the road was 2006,( by the previous owner) is there any way i can tell if the valve seats have been modified, ive just rebuilt this engine from scratch and the valves and seats just needed a light grind to seal ive got about 85% seat.   

Maybe look at the points cam, see if the surface is rusty? Maybe it's grinding away the foot of the points? That's an odd situation...

Seems like it would do it to both sets. Measure the foot before and after. Scribe a mark on the back plate around the points. Even though you said the screws were holding something is moving. It can only be the foot like HondaMan said or the points mount on the plate. If it is the base plate or cam the other set would change. Like Mark said very odd.
Can you still get leaded fuel ? That is odd too.
Ken

Ken

Offline JD

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 01:09:38 PM »
thanks guys,

ive re looked at the back plate and found that two of the three tapped casing holes that the back plate is screwed into are stripped and one of the back plate mountings is cracked and is a bit shaky when the engine is running, this has now been repaired and seems to have solved the issue.... fingers crossed .....

with regards the unleaded fuel, i know you can buy lead balls which can be added to unleaded fuel,( drop them into your fuel tank) to allow you to run old cars and bikes with out a head conversion. :)

JD

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 09:19:45 PM »
thanks guys,

ive re looked at the back plate and found that two of the three tapped casing holes that the back plate is screwed into are stripped and one of the back plate mountings is cracked and is a bit shaky when the engine is running, this has now been repaired and seems to have solved the issue.... fingers crossed .....

with regards the unleaded fuel, i know you can buy lead balls which can be added to unleaded fuel,( drop them into your fuel tank) to allow you to run old cars and bikes with out a head conversion. :)

JD

Good sleuthing! :)
The lead issue: these heads do not rotate the valves like pushrod engines or DOHC engines usually do. Because of that, we don't get valve recession into the seats with unleaded fuels. One of the accidental advantages of the SOHC4 design... But, the guides on the post-1975 bikes can wear quickly with unleaded fuels, because they were switched (for the most part) to cast iron in 1975 so save a few $ at Honda.

Today, we can handily solve this problem several ways:
1. Add a bit of top oil (like Marvel Mystery Oil or Lucas Top Oil) when fueling up. I've done this since unleaded took over, and at last check (126,000 miles) my 750 still had less than .0020" average valve clearance (mine has stellite guides, though, from 1972). They are original valves and guides, never been turned.
2. If you do a valve guide replacement to ensure REAL long life, the 550 has just one option that I know of: you can install bronze sleeves in the guides, like on old Fords and Chevies, beginning just recently. AFAIK, there are no bronze guides available for the 550, but someone could prove me out-of-touch in this regard? The bronze sleeves will deliver less friction, self-lubrication in the absence of lead, and will hold their tolerance much longer than cast iron guides.

I have just started offering this option to 750 heads that come this way: the machine shop thinks we can also do it with 550 heads. I hope to find out for sure, soon. It's quite a bit le$$ expense than replacing all the guides.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Frostyboy

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 02:03:55 AM »
I'd be interested to see if the bolt holding the advancer/points cam is actually secure. Check that the bolt hasn't bottomed out before it's grabbing the advancer.
Sounds like maybe it's the shaft moving away from the points rather than the points themselves moving?

Just a thought.
Good that the issue is resolved. I had a silly idea that the shaft may have been moving about on the end of the crank.
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
We haven't met yet.
[CB550F1]

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 03:47:54 AM »
Kibblewhite has bronze guides for the 550.

bollingball

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Re: CB 550 ignition problems
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 11:25:58 AM »
thanks guys,

ive re looked at the back plate and found that two of the three tapped casing holes that the back plate is screwed into are stripped and one of the back plate mountings is cracked and is a bit shaky when the engine is running, this has now been repaired and seems to have solved the issue.... fingers crossed .....

with regards the unleaded fuel, i know you can buy lead balls which can be added to unleaded fuel,( drop them into your fuel tank) to allow you to run old cars and bikes with out a head conversion. :)

JD

I don't get this if it was the back plate moving. Why did it not affect the other set of points?
Ken