Author Topic: Updated! cb750 re-spoked process PICS (Read 12330 times)

jevfro · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:33:28 AM »

Heres the progress I made in 3hrs yesterday. Wish I would have had more time but it's allready looking way better...

http://www.cwu.edu/~clevelaj/m0t0cycl3/wheelandtireoff.jpg

http://www.cwu.edu/~clevelaj/m0t0cycl3/spokescut.jpg

http://www.cwu.edu/~clevelaj/m0t0cycl3/beforecleaning.jpg

jevfro · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:40:09 AM »

heres the progress at getting that hub looking beautiful

Anyone know how much break pad I should have left on the rear shoes before replacement?
heres a shot of mine... I've got about 1/8 of an inch at the thinest point. Figure I should probably just replace it while it's all torn apart. Is there a inexpensive source for these?

Thanks for all the help ! I'll post the pollishing and lacing pics asap!

Bodi · « **Reply #27 on:** August 04, 2006, 03:15:31 PM »

I would keep the existing shoes. there's a lot of miles left on there!
You'll see the drum is worn slightly - across the face - and it should be refinished flat to use new shoes. New shoes should also be radiused to match the drum exactly. You don't get many resurfacings on a drum, and you have to replace the entire hub when it's worn beyond the service limit. Finding a brake shop that can radius small shoes like these will be a serious challenge.
The brake will work MUCH better with the old shoes than with new non-radiused shoes on the drum as it is.

bryanj · « **Reply #28 on:** August 05, 2006, 02:19:32 PM »

Sorry bodi i disagree there, whilst idealy on bigger drums you should re-surfsce and match the shoes there is not enough meat on either drum or shoes for that, as it is in bits already and shoes are not that expensive , due to the fact that they never changed, i would fit a new set and bed them in with carefull but frequent use over 500 miles. Put the brake hub back in as is and see how far the operating arm moves before the shoes touch it didnt ouoght to be much and from a certain year (sorry cant remember when) there was a cup washer with an arrow plus a raised mark on the hub and if these were close to lining up your shoes were considered "shot"

jevfro · « **Reply #29 on:** August 07, 2006, 06:30:48 PM »

Bodi: Thanksfor your input! I plan on keeping the shoes as it seems there is still enough pad on the shoes left. (also I've nearly spent all my budget...

)

bryanj Thanks for pointing out the arrow indicator. It looks ,like I've got a fair amount of wear left before the arrow lines up w/ the line(4mm maybe?) I can see what you mean about the problems related to radiusing such small drum/pads. I measured the drum and it is 178mm in dia (3mm within the max 181.0mm). I've inspected it and it looks like it is in good shape and should be ok for a while.

I've yet to polish the hubs and I broke one of the tabs off one of the small dampners... Any cheap sources for these other than ebay? looks like each one is around $10-$12 from service honda and about twice that from my "stealership"... are these something I should replace all of or can I just replace the one thats broken? They're all pretty brittle and cracked is that bad or just a cosmetic flaw?

I'll have to check David Silvers Spares...

Thanks again for your help and I hope I can finish the wheels by THIS friday!
I'll post the pics when done

Jevfro

jevfro · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2006, 12:31:00 AM »

Made some good progress tonight...

jevfro · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2006, 12:36:28 AM »

There was one bad nipple however... so I emailed partsnmore. I hope they send out a replacement very soon. I don't think I can have it trued with a nipple that won't thread further than 1 1/2 turns. and I can't get my tire mounted until then either! arrghh!

maybe the guy I'm taking it to to have it trued will have a spare. I kinda doubt it though

oldbiker · « **Reply #32 on:** August 11, 2006, 01:16:58 AM »

Starting to look real good. Can you not clean the thread on the one spoke and nipple with the tight thread?

cben750f0 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 11, 2006, 04:04:18 AM »

mate thats commin along bloody unreal, congrats, pitty about the spoke, but as someone else has said, you cant clean up the thread?, NEway top effort,...peace

cbjunkie · « **Reply #34 on:** August 11, 2006, 06:56:48 AM »

VERY INSPIRING!

thanks man - i needed that - it has been a sh*tty week here and i haven't even touched my bag-o-spokes yet

jevfro · « **Reply #35 on:** August 11, 2006, 02:20:27 PM »

Thanks for all the complements! I'm felling pretty good about it. I tried to clean the nipple but it seems it was just threaded wrong or really bunged up. Partsnmore already emailed and said they are sending two new nipples that have been checked to fit.
I can't wait to get trued and new rubber (hopefully today if I luck out and get the nipple replacement at the honda shop in Yakima) and finally ride w/ it confidince...

Thanks again,
Jev

techy5025 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 12, 2006, 10:14:16 AM »

Having done this several times, I can really appreciate this effort. The hub and wheel
look great!

You might try swapping two of the nipples to see if they will then thread.

Jim

jevfro · « **Reply #37 on:** August 12, 2006, 10:45:33 AM »

Well honda shop said they should have a spare nipple laying around. It won't be done until monday though

Front tire mounted and it looks good. It'll be just one more long weekend w/o the rear wheel. I did try the nipple on other spokes same problem. It's like it was just threaded to the wrong pitch. Oh well, maybe I'll spend the down time cleaning up a few things... Front brake caliper is probably a good canidate. Alothough it seems to work well I get just a hint of drag when it is disengaged (probably a fouled up piston or old seal?) I've read lots on this here and it seems a simple enough fix. Waiting for parts is what kills me... If nothing else this bike has taught me patience.

I'll post a few more pics of the final finished product when I get rear wheel back and everything's cleaned up and re-mounted. I hope this thread will help and inspire others to re-build old wheels w/ snotty looking/broken spokes and have the confidence to do it themselves. I was really amazed how easy lacing the wheel was

oldbiker · « **Reply #38 on:** August 13, 2006, 01:07:19 AM »

Lacing is fairly easy. Getting the wheel true with ALL the spokes at approximately the same correct tension is the bit that requires patience. It can be done.

cbjunkie · « **Reply #39 on:** August 17, 2006, 12:15:20 AM »

Well so I got into it myself tonight - data: K1, 16"rear.

the existing 16" spoke set i worked off spoke by spoke - a real pain, but i was nervous about getting it back properly so i went s l o w. a few i had to cut out...

thing to know is that ALL of my spokes are innies, that is, they all thread into the holes from the outside of the spoke hub. i guess this must be a 16" mod thing because all of the other bikes in the garage are laced one outie one innie crossing...i looked around and didn't see any others like mine.

anyway the OLD spokes were really high quality. thickened shoulders about 3/8" below the head and instead of bending one of each pair the neck of the one to cross behind is elongated slightly, offsetting it to go behind the first.

the NEW spokes are stainless steel. a touch thinner, or at least without a thickened shoulder or neck below the head. the one to go under is BENT about 1/2" down from the head. this is supposed to allow it to go around behind the first spoke with minimal deflection.

SUPPOSED TO i say because once i had laced them all up and snugged them down i found that the heads of the "top" spoke were being pushed out of their seat by the force of the "bottom" spoke pushing out.

i took them all out.

i did a test lace with a couple using the bent spoke as an outie - that is threading from inside the hub, but this did not work, clearly the method for lacing these 16s is different from a stock tire and since there is no head seat on the interior of the spoke hub i couldn't see a way to make it work.

here i should say that the heads of the NEW set are puny compared with the OLD set. smaller and i can see light coming in around them now that i have the spokes firmed up. this bothers me.

so...i relaced following the original pattern, all innies, but this time after getting all the nuts on (two or three turns) i took the "top", or straight spokes to full seat, leaving the bent, bottom spokes loose.

then i tightened down the bottom spokes. this caused some deflection in the uppers, bowing them slightly out, despite the bend that is supposed to compensate. this is a characteristic that was not present in the OLD set due to the longer necks of the bottom spoke. this bothers me, but i will talk to the guru who is doing the trueing/tire mounting for me tomorrow.

all in all the EASY part was the actual lacing - i could teach a class!

the little discrepancies bug me and the apparent low quality of the spokes bothers me too. these are the sets that you see come up on Ebay all the time, Stainless Steel - it's always the same seller.

i'm not saying they are bad, yet, but i will be a little miffed if the mechanic tells me to pitch the whole lot tomorrow - not to mention i have a potential new gf that is expecting a ride this weekend! i HATE performance anxiety!

i will try to post some pics tommorow of the OLD spokes. i didn't take any (dumb) of the lacing - i loaned my camera to a collegue today, but i have a set of the OLD spokes in my pocket and will post up tomorrow so you guys can analyse the quality with me. despite the corrosion they are wonderful little bits.

any ideas??

junkie out...

cben750f0 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:39:10 AM »

good luck mate,keep us posted...peace

cbjunkie · « **Reply #41 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:51:09 AM »

pix of the OLD set...

cbjunkie · « **Reply #42 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:51:43 AM »

bottom

cbjunkie · « **Reply #43 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:52:00 AM »

nested...

dusterdude · « **Reply #44 on:** August 17, 2006, 08:30:25 AM »

junkie,send your potential gf my way,ill ride her,i mean give her a ride while you are playing with yourself,i mean your wheel.

cbjunkie · « **Reply #45 on:** August 17, 2006, 08:31:22 AM »

damnit, dusterdude!

jevfro · « **Reply #46 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:43:20 PM »

CBJUNKIE sorry you're having some difficulty with your new spokes. Your old ones look better than mine!... I'm not of much help since mine were a different size. I figured I add my old ones here too incase they are of any help to anyone. They were on my 75 cb750 K5 18" rear wheel (stock configureation I'm guessing? they look 31yrs old...)

cbjunkie · « **Reply #47 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:39:58 PM »

so i took it in to the shop today and Chet, the mechanic there, spent about 40 minutes going over means and methods with me.

he was VERY helpful - he works on all types of bikes - this shop is really small and but they carry some kind of HD choppers on the showroom floor - they have about 5 display bikes and thats it.

Chet rides a 80's Kwaki that i saw parked out front and there were Hondas and HDs in his garage.

I described my travails and he comforted and reassured me on several counts - then he proceeded to set me straight on "offset" and "runout", showed me some things and was free with the info.

one thing, he was NOT interested in trueing my wheel. i point-blank asked him and he said, No. it is simply not worth it to him from a liability standpoint and i have to admit that i see his point.

he put my wheel up on his trueing bracket and showed me how much/little it was off - actually i had done a pretty good job considering i was working on the bottom of a 5-gallon bucket and using my sense of touch to test it.

he suggested i mount it on the bike and showed me how to set the offset for the sprocket/chain alignment and told me what order to do each step.

very important, he added, with SS spokes is to use Assembly Lubricant on each spoke, fully coating every mm of thread into each groove. a toothpaste tube size of this goo was 2 dollars from AutoZone. point being that this is necessary to "set" each nipple nut as SS in particular will catch on itself - this is the sqeaky sound you hear when you start to get them snug and the lube will prevent this. a helpful outcome of this property of SS is that after 50 miles and a final scrunch down they will lock in and never move again, but without the lube the nuts will "set" loose and you won't be able to tighten them any more - bad.

so it looks like tonight i will be unscrewing nuts again fortunately i can just do one at a time.

he told me not to be bashful about tightening - "just tighten them as much as possible - you aren't going to break them and with the lube on there you won't be able to get them TOO TIGHT."

actually, for the age of the rim and hub, which head holes are "wallered out" as he put it, i didn't do too bad a job the first go round - i only neglected the offset, which is of course vastly important for proper chain tracking.

i will take photos tonight and post up later on.

junkie out...

jevfro · « **Reply #48 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:04:56 PM »

hrmm,
I thought there was no offset? or do you have a diffrent bike? 750? (Maybe it's just terminology getting in the way) I'm surprised the mechanic at the shop wouldn't true it for you. But we are a very litigious society maybe he's been sued already...

Anyway, I just found out that my wheel has been trued and I can pick it up after work! only cost me $66 for truing, tire mount w/ new rim strip +1 spoke nipple. It took a little longer than I had hoped but I knew I was in the right place when I saw 2 other SOHC4's sitting in a line of maybe 12 biles waiting for service.

I did get some other work done while I was waiting... Brake caliper cleaned out ,twice. (I didn't pull the seal and clean out the grove the first time and the brake still was dragging after reassembly). Works good now! also cleaned up around the rear wheel and re-routed cables and brake line.

I'll post some pics when I get it back together tonight.

cbjunkie · « **Reply #49 on:** August 17, 2006, 06:22:04 PM »

well that's a good question. i am going to mount it as it is tomorrow and see if the alignment between rear and front sprockets are equal.

i'll be really surprised. - that's what he, Chet, called "offset". "runout" is the hubs true to the rim. they should be within 11 thousandth according to Chet - hahahahahahahahahahaha - thats with new rims and hubs.

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Author Topic: Updated! cb750 re-spoked process PICS (Read 12330 times)