Topic: 75 CB550 is not Cooperating

[jo_ma_ma]

Hi guys.  I have been using the information off this site for a long time, but decided to post some questions.  Thanks for what you are doing - most of the information here has been very useful.

Alright, so I have a 75 honda cb550.  I've had it for years... I rode it a while back (7 years ago maybe) at my parents suburb... then I graduated college, forgot about it for a while, then I remembered again, and decided to restore it and ride it... Well, then I remembered that I didn't have the title, so I had to apply for the title... and that was gonna take a while... all summer in fact...  In the mean time I thought I'd fix all that's wrong with the bike and by the time I get the title, I'll have a working bike, and I'll ride it around Chicago in the evenings... take my wife for ice cream...

First, I read a bunch of posts on this here website, then went ahead and pulled out and cleaned the carburetors and changed the oil, and replaced the cables, spark plugs, battery, checked the timing, cleaned the air filter, replaced the handlebars, cleaned and polished... cleaned and polished everything. 

After completing all those tasks, the bike finally started for the first time in years... and that was great.  At first only one side ran.  I thought it was the coils and took them out... and then the guy at zenterprise.com told me it is likely not the coils, so I connected the coils back.  I took apart the tank thinking it was clogged and wasn't sending fuel into the carbs.  A week later I tried it again, and it ran with all 4 cylinders!  It ran at about 3000 rpm's, though...  I connected the vacuum tool and synchronized the carburetors, and the bike ran great... although it still ran at around 3000 rpm's.  I thought I'd take it for a ride and that would help the bike run better and help the rpm's to go down. 

So this past weekend I got the title, finally, and drove to my parents' (where the bike lives now), and put on my helmet... and the Honda did not start...  So... I know it's all about the spark, the timing, the air, and the fuel mixture... but I thought I sorted all that out.    It has the spark... the carbs are clean... it ran 3 weeks ago... I don't know what to do with it anymore... it is supposed to be reliable and tough...  What I don't want to happen is bring the bike where I live (no garage), and have it just sit there and not be able to start...

Please let me know if you guys can suggest anything... to help me get this bike on the road... but, mostly, thanks for the opportunity to write and post this here...
Cheers,

Ale.

[jo_ma_ma]

By the way, here are some photos of my Honda.

[Mo]

Have you checked the battery voltage?

[Vinhead1957]

Check fuel filter and bowls to make sure fuel is present. Pull a plug to see if its wet or dry

[Joemac]

Have you checked the battery voltage?

+1

I had problems with old school unsealed batteries all the time.  Bought a sealed Scorpion battery, changed my life....my battery life that is. HOHO

[TwoTired]

The individual slide adjusters can be skewed so that the slide can lower far enough to allow the idle screw to set the slide opening.  When you reassembled the carbs did you ensure that the slide barrels can completely shut off inlet flow with the idle knob backed out?

If not, this is the likely reason that it won't idle below 3000 RPM.  Unless...
Are you saying that you must set the idle at 3000 or the engine will die?  If that is the case then the pilot jets or the pilot jet circuits in the carbs are probably still blocked.

"Did not start"  Is a pretty non-descript statement, which may or may not include:
The starter won't operate electrically.
The starter won't spin the engine.
The engine spins but doesn't fire the cylinders.
The engine fires but won't keep running on its own.

If you dismantled the fuel valve for the tank, did you recover and check the filter?  Are you sure the valve and filter were assembled correctly?
Do check the STOP-RUN-STOP switch setting.
Check for gas in the tank, and that the "reserve" position operates as it should.


And...
Don't blame the machine for a mechanic deficiency.  The bike can teach you a lot.  But, it won't teach you everything.  It is the mechanic that is supposed to teach the bike how to behave properly.

[MoMo]

And...
Don't blame the machine for a mechanic deficiency.  The bike can teach you a lot.  But, it won't teach you everything.  It is the mechanic that is supposed to teach the bike how to behave properly.
[/quote]



   ...Larry

[Duanob]

Sweet looking original 75! A set of OEM 4 x 4 pipes will make that thing super cherry.

[goldarrow]

i'll arrange a shipping company to come out to you and pick up the bike, ship it to me and i'll help you get it running again.  once i get your bike, i will first check the battery and see if at least i can get any lights to come on.

[jo_ma_ma]

Check fuel filter and bowls to make sure fuel is present. Pull a plug to see if its wet or dry

I'll do that...  Last I checked the plugs were wet... then I adjusted the air mixture screws... the suggested number of turns... and that helped... then I synchronized the carbs and thought that took care of that... I'll have to pull the plugs again... this weekend...  Thanks for your reply, man!

[jo_ma_ma]

The individual slide adjusters can be skewed so that the slide can lower far enough to allow the idle screw to set the slide opening.  When you reassembled the carbs did you ensure that the slide barrels can completely shut off inlet flow with the idle knob backed out?

If not, this is the likely reason that it won't idle below 3000 RPM.  Unless...
Are you saying that you must set the idle at 3000 or the engine will die?  If that is the case then the pilot jets or the pilot jet circuits in the carbs are probably still blocked.

"Did not start"  Is a pretty non-descript statement, which may or may not include:
The starter won't operate electrically.
The starter won't spin the engine.
The engine spins but doesn't fire the cylinders.
The engine fires but won't keep running on its own.

If you dismantled the fuel valve for the tank, did you recover and check the filter?  Are you sure the valve and filter were assembled correctly?
Do check the STOP-RUN-STOP switch setting.
Check for gas in the tank, and that the "reserve" position operates as it should.


And...
Don't blame the machine for a mechanic deficiency.  The bike can teach you a lot.  But, it won't teach you everything.  It is the mechanic that is supposed to teach the bike how to behave properly.

Thanks for suggesstions, TwoTired!  I'll check to make sure the fuel flows to the carbs...  The engine turns, it almost starts... but won't keep going.  I think this might be related to fuel not getting in there... too lean... but I'll know this weekend once I pull the plugs out.  Thank you!  Oh, and I am not blaming the bike... it's a piece of equipment... I just really want to make it work... I've seen so many photos of these vintage motorcycles that you guys put together... and just want to make a contribution, so to speak... to the collective call to keep these machines alive.. hehe.

[jo_ma_ma]

i'll arrange a shipping company to come out to you and pick up the bike, ship it to me and i'll help you get it running again.  once i get your bike, i will first check the battery and see if at least i can get any lights to come on.

Thanks goldarrow!  It would definitely be nice to get a second set of brains to help with this... but having all of you guys contributing is a hell of an encouragement.  Thank you.

[jo_ma_ma]

Sweet looking original 75! A set of OEM 4 x 4 pipes will make that thing super cherry.

Thank you Duanob!

[jo_ma_ma]

Alright, guys.  I thought about all your posts, and I went to my parents last weekend, and I measured the battery output - it turned out to be 11.4 volts.  Figuring that must be too low (and understanding now why the bike started from a car battery), I hooked up the car battery to it again, cranked the engine to no avail for several tries.  But then it just fired up!  It did it so easily, too - just as if it was a daily commuter!  It just worked... kept going and going.  The rpm's were high, but I let her run for a while... to warm up the engine and burn off all the stuff it may have accumulated in the carburetors, etc.   After the bike warmed up, I adjusted the rpm's to about 1800, and that was that.  I then took the bike for a run.  Boy was that fun?  I completely forgot how exciting it is to ride motorcycles (it's been a few years).  Anyway, it's a really good feeling - to spend time on something, and then have it give you all this pleasure back (I'm sure most of you are familiar with that feeling).  I rode the bike for about 20-30 minutes, and it just kept getting better and better.  I stalled a couple of times, and the bike started without the car battery... really easily.  I asked my dad to start it up every day and ride it so it keeps the momentum.  This weekend I am going to visit my folks again and I really look forward to riding the bike.
Thank you all for support!
Ale... 

[Tews19]

Car battery?

Yikes do not do that.. Just like you should never jump it with a car either...

Did you slap yo_ma_ma?

[Tews19]

God darn it!!!! Freakin auto correct for these stupid SMART phones!!!!

I meant in a joking matter, " did you slap it jo_ma_ma"? as in the bike to behave properly?

[jo_ma_ma]

Wait, forgot something: what is a good place to purchase a kit to rebuild the master cylinder, do you guys know?  I placed the order with the fella who sells brake hoses through slingshot-cycles (the member discount is very cool, by the way), but I figured I might as well get the brakes sorted all the way.  I looked around online and the prices vary greatly; perhaps someone can recommend a place that's proven itself.

Also, do I need to replace the piston that's inside the assembly?  I've seen this dude on youtube just replace the gaskets and clean everything and just put the same metal parts (the piston, the spring and a retainer clip) back.  The kit I saw online come with the piston and the gaskets, and another gasket for a different Honda bike... too many pieces... I was hoping to get just what's necessary and pay for just that.

Another question: what do you guys know about EBC brake pads for these motorcycles?  I have them on my car and I really like them.  They cost like 10 bucks more... but if they are gentler on the disk, perhaps it's worth investing the extra... for the long run.  If you know a good brake pad (and the brake shoe for the rear), please let me know.

Have a good holiday (if you're in US), and good weekend to you all!
Ale.

[RAFster122s]

Using a car battery can be done safely is you do NOT have the car running and are using booster cables. But not if the battery is not present or has a bad cell.

[jo_ma_ma]

Yeah, I had to electrocute the hell out of it, pretty much :-)  but it worked!

[Tews19]

Rebuild kits range from 20-50 bucks....Check out David Silver Spares website... You can get an after market master cylinder for like 60 bucks.. Bolts right on and works great...

[RAFster122s]

Why not spend a bit more and buy a new repro brake master cylinder from David Silvers Spares here in the US, it is around $60 if I recall correctly.

[bryanj]

 I don't know of anybody that can re-use that damn circlip as its so awkward to get out its usually bent!!

OK my 2 cents on batteries,

I, like most, used to buy the cheapest i could find as i don't ride much anymore but 18 months ago, on advice froma good dealer friend of mine, i spent the extra 25% and bought a Yuasa had it filled and charged for a day.

Last week after standing for 10 months I just turned on the gas and choke let it sit and the starter turned it over for a good few minutes till it fired---that would never have happened with a "Cheapie" battery

[MoMo]

I don't know of anybody that can re-use that damn circlip as its so awkward to get out its usually bent!!

OK my 2 cents on batteries,

I, like most, used to buy the cheapest i could find as i don't ride much anymore but 18 months ago, on advice froma good dealer friend of mine, i spent the extra 25% and bought a Yuasa had it filled and charged for a day.

Last week after standing for 10 months I just turned on the gas and choke let it sit and the starter turned it over for a good few minutes till it fired---that would never have happened with a "Cheapie" battery

Agree on the battery.  No more cheapies for me either, no more acid filled batteries too -the small amount of extra money they cost is well worth the prevention of acid damage...Larry

[lucky]

Are the idle jets clear? Can you see daylight through them?

[Frostyboy]

Car battery?
Yikes do not do that.. Just like you should never jump it with a car either...

Can you explain why not for me please? I'd love to know 

[dave500]

thats because #$%*tards get the cables reversed owen,thats all.

[TwoTired]

Car battery?
Yikes do not do that.. Just like you should never jump it with a car either...

Can you explain why not for me please? I'd love to know 

Electricity doesn't know or care about the source of power, as it only behaves in reaction to physics principles rather than human "interpretation" of physical matters.
Car battery is still 12 V.  If the engine is running, the system may have 14.5v while the alternator supplies power up to it's rated output (~60A in some vehicles).
While the SOHC4 starter can consume 120A under some conditions, it normally draws about 25-40A during operation.

However, there is nothing on the bike that can't handle 15V potentials.   And the bike won't draw any more power from the donor vehicle than what the bike requires/demands.

Jumping from a car battery (running or not) is of no threat to the bike or donor vehicle, unless a human connects it up backwards or there is something wrong with either vehicle besides a weak or missing battery.

[Tews19]

Yikes sorry for the bad info... I thought I've read numerous times on the site to never jump a bike with a car..... I am wrong and sorry for the bad info.

[TwoTired]

Yikes sorry for the bad info... I thought I've read numerous times on the site to never jump a bike with a car..... I am wrong and sorry for the bad info.

Yes, it has been posted several times in the forum.  There is a lot of good info in the forum.  Just not all of it.

 People often misunderstand the cause of their misfortunes, and develop superstitions, which sometimes develop into gossip, folk lore, and even propaganda.

[Frostyboy]

Have to totally agree with TT. Myths about jump starts abound.
As fate would have it, my first job today was to go & start a VF400 Shadow with a crook battery. I've been jump starting all sorts of bikes/cars for 25 years in my current job & have yet to be accountable for any damage due to procedure.
Just in case you're interested, I connected an amps clamp to the jumper leads today & read the current draw on the + lead as I activated the leads connected to the Shadow. It read 0.3A. Hardly a threat to anything electronic.
I once heard it said that if you connect a 600CCA battery to a bike it'll blow up, I think I've disproved that theory about a hundred times.
As is my practice, after connecting the leads, I started the bike & let it run for a few minutes. Turned the bike off, isolated the donor & then started the bike on its own battery. If you do it that way it totally eliminates the risk of spike damage as opposed to disconnecting the donor battery while the subject vehicle is running.
I left the rider with a quote for a Motobatt for when he gets paid on Thursday.

[jo_ma_ma]

Hi guys!  Any ideas on where I might find a reasonably-priced petcock rebuild kit?  First of all, they don't even seem to be available for 75 Honda CB550K...  I see that they're abundant for 75 CB550F or super sport, or 1974 CB550K, but not 75 CB550K.  I need both seals between the tank, petcock and the nut, and the petcock kit... with the screen, the rubber piece and the lot...  Please recommend!  I've been spending all this time, when perhaps one of you just purchased one that worked well.
Have a nice weekend!
A.

[zipper]

If the bike has been sitting so long cleaning the air filter won't restore its flow. I suggest you should replace it, it's not that expensive and it makes a huge difference!

[TwoTired]

There are three different fuel valves/filter units for the Cb550 series in the US.
A. The 74 model used the same as the Cb500 of prior years.  It had a sediment bowl, and two outlets.

B. The 75 - 76 F and K models both used the same style. In tank "sock" filter type and two out outlets.

C. The 77 F and K as well as the 78K used yet a different style, smaller bung, single outlet, and an in tank plastic screen.

People have been switching tanks around on bikes for years.  So, I don't know if you still have a 75 tank.  The sock/stand pipe for this model valve sits atop a D shaped gasket.  Is this the type you are looking for?  If the supplier knows what he has, a 75 or 76 F tank valve should be the same as a 75 or 76 K model tank's valve/filter.

[Joemac]

Glad to hear you got her moving again duder.
I definitely recommend getting a sealed battery if your current one gives you problems in the future.

I picked up one of these...free shipping
http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYT12C.html

no more worrying about electrolyte levels...gravity...corrosive acid etc.  Well worth the extra 20-30 bones if you ask me.  I've left my battery sit for months at a time with still got her to start, i think your old man would appreciate that lol, that is unless he insists on keeping your battery charged.  It is a pretty good excuse to able to take your bike out for spin i suppose haha.

[jo_ma_ma]

Thanks for the advise, Joe!  I'll definitely get the newer type sealed battery next time around... I just didn't think about it when I got this one... it was just cheap I thought... and it was on amazon, and it was free shipping.  When it got to my house, it came without the fluid... so I had to drive around to find that stuff... and it took forever, as the battery acid is not available at Walmart, etc.  Then I learned that there are newer and better batteries out there... so no more liquids going forward - I agree.
Cheers!

[Deltarider]

I, like most, used to buy the cheapest i could find as i don't ride much anymore but 18 months ago, on advice froma good dealer friend of mine, i spent the extra 25% and bought a Yuasa had it filled and charged for a day.

Last week after standing for 10 months I just turned on the gas and choke let it sit and the starter turned it over for a good few minutes till it fired---that would never have happened with a "Cheapie" battery

Yuasa is good quality and first choice. The first one lasted 7 years, be it that the 7th season kickstart only. The second Yuasa idem dito.
The cheapies - I ride less and less - 3-4 years maximum and they receive more attention than the Yuasa's ever had.