Topic: Piston Ring location

[nitrofish1]

Location of the oil scraper rings is easy enough, but the top two, of course, the Honda factory manual is very detailed in helping me do this. May as well just say "Install piston rings."


One has a beveled edge on both sides, the other has 90` edges, which one goes on top and middle?

The rings I got are RIK brand.

[goldarrow]

If I recall correctly, Darker color ring is middle ring.  Be sure the stamp on the ring face up

[nitrofish1]

If I recall correctly, Darker color ring is middle ring.  Be sure the stamp on the ring face up

the darker one is the 90` edged one. the beveled one is slightly lighter in color

[nitrofish1]

I was kinda thinking that the non-beveled edge ring would go on top for compression purposes? unsure :/

[Dave Voss]

I don't recall if this is the case with these Honda pistons, but the thickness of the first and second rings are often different so that they cannot be inadvertently swapped during installation.  Apart from that, the first ring normally does not have a bevel, although many have a small shallow step on the top side outer edge to clear cylinder wall ridges created by the previously installed rings.

[nitrofish1]

I don't recall if this is the case with these Honda pistons, but the thickness of the first and second rings are often different so that they cannot be inadvertently swapped during installation.  Apart from that, the first ring normally does not have a bevel, although many have a small shallow step on the top side outer edge to clear cylinder wall ridges created by the previously installed rings.

The new rings were the same thickness, i measured, but there doesnt appear to be a step in these.

[lucky]

When you get rings they are in a paper wrapper usually and they are stacked in the proper order.

[bryanj]

Top ring is chromed on outer edge (shiny_
Second ring is black

Markings(usualy found by end) face upwards

[RAFster122s]

+1 on bryanj
2nd ring is beveled don't remember but thinking bevel side down, but as bryanj indicated, any markings on face if ring near end go facing up.

[nitrofish1]

mixed replies eh?

the rings out of the boxes came in different orders, i checked all 4 boxes.

the ring with the beveled edge was just less dark but i wouldnt call it chromed edge, and both sides of it are beveled.

ill take some pics today and post em up

[nitrofish1]

no one knows for sure?

[goldarrow]

As mentioned previously above I'm see same replies.  Lighter color ring, darker color ring, then your oil weeping zigzag ring (sandwiched in between the very very thin two rings. 

[nitrofish1]

As mentioned previously above I'm see same replies.  Lighter color ring, darker color ring, then your oil weeping zigzag ring (sandwiched in between the very very thin two rings.

thanks. there was one other reply so i was questioning it, kinda something i wanted to get right the first time, not the second time when im doing a top-end teardown

[scharny61]

Hi, I'm still confused, sorry. My aftermarket kit came with "Top" brand rings.

There is a black ring that is rectangle in cross section. The other is bevelled on both sides.
My question is; which one goes in the top piston groove. I can't rely on the piston ring order of the old pistons because they blew smoke.

HM indicated in another post that the bevelled ring goes in the second groove, but this does not match the pistons removed from the bike. This is the source of my confusion.

Also, what is the purpose of these different rings?

Great forum and interesting info, thanks.

[Trad]

Top ring is will be the shinier of the two. It doesn't have a bevel and is the main compression/sealing ring. The second ring will have a bevel and that bevel will face down as this ring also acts as an oil scraper to an extent. The bottom oil ring and it's spacer are not a large area for concern as they act 20% compression 80% oil scrapper.

The rings will usually have a marker near the gap that should always face upward. Make sure you check all the ring gaps just to be safe.

I usually find that I rarely need to grind the second and bottom rings. I find myself having to almost always grind a bit on the top ring to get it perfect. 

A semi-related interesting fact is that some hot rod drag cars won't even use the second ring on the piston! They want minimal drag and will set the top ring gap to the tightest allowable tolerance.

[tlbranth]

Why don't you see if you can find a site for the manufacturer and email them.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I have my TOP brand  facing up with the shinier of the 2, which has a slight bevel on the TOP edge, in the top groove and the boring looking squared edge darker colored ring in the second groove.

I checked my Honda rings and my Henry Abe rings installed on pistons. Same situation with both.

Perhaps what we are learning and getting confused by is that different manufacturers did things differently?!

TL has a good idea since we can't get a general concensus. That is only provided you know the manufacturer 

Anyway, I'll be installing rings soon and I'll do mine the way I found them.

[lucky]

no one knows for sure?

No that is not right.
Someone does know. The manufacturer.
Call them.

Basically rings are like bearings . All markings face the mechanic. Look for a letter "T".
on the rings,that faces upwards. The T mark is near the end of the piston ring gap.

You may have to use a magnifying glass.

IF you have any doubts always call the manufacturer. End of story.
Don't just believe the internet.

[scharny61]

Thanks guys. I have emailed the supplier and hope they will find the answer. I don't want to pull this engine out yet again!

[martin99]

Hi, I'm still confused, sorry. My aftermarket kit came with "Top" brand rings.

Not trying to be clever here, but I think there has already been a subtle reference to this...

Did your rings come in packets with TOP written on them? Or do they have TOP stamped on the actual ring?

If it's the latter, that denotes their orientation, not the brand.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

OK, let's see if this helps. Just received a ring from Total Seal HOWEVER this doesn't tell us about outside bevels or ring color. The plot thickens.......

[scharny61]

Oldskoolnuts - the actual sealed packet has Top printed on it and I've checked the packets containing the rings and they are all packed the same;

upper most ring is bevelled top and bottom.
second ring is black with square edges.
Last is the 3 piece oil ring.
Don't know if this is significant or a machine packs them.

Jerry Rxman - thanks for that info, interesting. My uppermost ring does match the 'Barrel face' but my 2nd ring looks flat faced and has no markings and appears to be able to go in any way - as you say; the plot does thicken!

thanks to both.

[scharny61]

Update. cruisinimage, the supplier got back to me and confirmed that the bevelled ring goes in number one groove and the rectangular ring goes in the second groove.
I'd recommend cruisinimage to those that want a cheap 836 kit and they're good service providers. you can find them on Ebay.

The kit looks ok to me; hopefully it performs ok.