Author Topic: Timing hesitation? *updated with video*  (Read 9659 times)

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Offline phil71

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2013, 08:21:38 PM »
replacing springs will not change the timing. F will be where it was, as will total, just at a different rate.

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2013, 09:50:23 PM »
True but it def changes the way that the bike behaves in regards to loose springs vs tight springs

Offline phil71

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2013, 10:14:29 PM »
<sigh> Yes, as I said, the rate of advance could be wrong, but neither the idle, nor the full advance numbers (in degrees) would be any different after changing ONLY the springs.

Offline pamcopete

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2013, 04:02:10 AM »
If you have weak springs, then some of the available weight movement will be used up at idle leaving less at full advance because the weights would be at their stops at a lower RPM. Think of where the advance would be if you had no springs. The weights would be fully extended at idle, but you would adjust the plate to move the timing to the idle timing mark and there would be no more available movement of the weights possible so you would not advance past the idle timing mark. Having no springs is the extreme example of weak springs that results in less available full advance.

If you had very stiff springs, like a wire in the place of the springs, then idle timing would be attainable, but there would be no movement available for advance timing. This is an extreme example of stiff springs. What actually happens with stiff springs is that full advance is delayed to a higher RPM, perhaps even higher than your normal cruise RPMs so you do not get any advance for normal riding.

So, either loose springs or tight springs will result in a decrease or delay in full advance at whatever RPM you would normally expect to see full advance.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 04:04:10 AM by pamcopete »

Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2013, 04:55:22 AM »
I meant I like the springs to stay put around that mark. Not like I waste the day away looking for the magic number but you want those springs to be fully closed at idle. I set my idle around 1000 or so, not lower.

I'm just trying to give you some numbers to work with to relate to. Most of the material out there on this is vague and says everybody's machine is different. Makes it tough to figure out "wrong" or off a little
The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline phil71

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2013, 09:14:15 AM »
BJ, that's perfect. If you're ever in doubt, you should just set the total advance, and let 'f' fall wherever it falls.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2013, 05:01:19 PM »
If you have weak springs, then some of the available weight movement will be used up at idle leaving less at full advance because the weights would be at their stops at a lower RPM. Think of where the advance would be if you had no springs. The weights would be fully extended at idle, but you would adjust the plate to move the timing to the idle timing mark and there would be no more available movement of the weights possible so you would not advance past the idle timing mark. Having no springs is the extreme example of weak springs that results in less available full advance.

If you had very stiff springs, like a wire in the place of the springs, then idle timing would be attainable, but there would be no movement available for advance timing. This is an extreme example of stiff springs. What actually happens with stiff springs is that full advance is delayed to a higher RPM, perhaps even higher than your normal cruise RPMs so you do not get any advance for normal riding.

So, either loose springs or tight springs will result in a decrease or delay in full advance at whatever RPM you would normally expect to see full advance.
Pete, that is a great explanation. BTW that unit you sold me has been bulletproof.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2013, 06:05:49 PM »
Yeah it's like I have to give it half throttle and it has a solid rev otherwise i get stumbling that barely gets me moving forward

Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2013, 06:12:48 PM »
Have you looked at your carbs at all? It could be fuel. Like I said before in my experience the need to do that was because my needle clip was one clip too lean. It stumbled and I had to roll thru it then it went
The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2013, 07:55:37 PM »
Right now I'm at the stock clip position for my carbs

Offline goldarrow

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2013, 07:59:54 PM »
Right now I'm at the stock clip position for my carbs

Air screws setting?
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Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2013, 08:06:50 PM »
Seems to like 1.5 to 2 turns out

Offline goldarrow

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2013, 08:21:15 PM »
You need to lean at clip position if 2 turns out is still rich at stock clips
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

CB550 K0
CB750 K0, K2, K23 JDM, K45, K5
And the little ones z50r, xr50r, st90


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Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2013, 08:43:26 PM »
I put needle one stop leaner in the past and it just resulted in deceleration pops :/ ....It just sorta lags and then the power comes on heavy...

Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2013, 07:02:27 AM »
That is that freight train on/off feeling of being too lean to richer. Try a clip richer after you have everything sorted to your satisfaction for the timing. I don't think the airscrews will do it
The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2013, 09:55:37 AM »
Ok thank you for the help... Hopefully I'll be able to figure it out soon

Offline lucky

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2013, 11:32:09 AM »
I think the hesitation is coming from idle screws possibly... At least that's what I've been guessing at this point... Two tired has a little test involving putting the bike in top gear while running and putting it at a idle speed and opening the throttle half way... It should, as he says, have slow smooth acceleration but it in fact hesitates and burbles.... Almost chugging sound


Nope. Idle screws and idle jets control idle.
As soon as you turn the throttle it is the slide needle that comes into play.


Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2013, 02:00:48 PM »
Ok well hope it's the needle... I've never ridden a properly tuned bike to know how it should behave... In fact I've never been on any other mororcycle.... I'm def close though with the tuning

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2013, 08:32:25 PM »
Are there any tips or signs to maybe get me putting the clip in the right spot? Just feels like I need to crank the throttle about half way to get any real power by it difficult to roll the throttle on smoothly or it kinda lags... My screws are at 1.5 turns out

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2013, 11:08:30 AM »
Are there any tips or signs to maybe get me putting the clip in the right spot? Just feels like I need to crank the throttle about half way to get any real power by it difficult to roll the throttle on smoothly or it kinda lags... My screws are at 1.5 turns out
At the age of these bike and the number of people who may have worked on them, things like 1.5 turn out may no longer be valid.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2013, 01:49:57 PM »
From today's ride... From a dead stop I can't really roll the throttle on slow it sounds like it's choking and what's really interesting is after the engine warms up I quickly blip the throttle it's as if the engine skips a beat... Like it almost dies but doesn't
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 02:02:03 PM by gregripko »

Offline goldarrow

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2013, 01:56:35 PM »
Look rich on slow throttles, lean on high throttles. 
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

CB550 K0
CB750 K0, K2, K23 JDM, K45, K5
And the little ones z50r, xr50r, st90


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Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2013, 02:03:51 PM »
How can you tell from a single plug reading slow jet conditions and main? Two photos are of same plugs just turned opposite way to show coloring

Offline goldarrow

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2013, 02:07:36 PM »
How can you tell from a single plug reading slow jet conditions and main? Two photos are of same plugs just turned opposite way to show coloring

That's what I had, up until yesterday before i bump up the main jets to 110
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

CB550 K0
CB750 K0, K2, K23 JDM, K45, K5
And the little ones z50r, xr50r, st90


750k5 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114817.0

Offline gregripko

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Re: Timing hesitation?
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2013, 02:11:24 PM »
So I should bump up main jets to 110 and lean the needle out a spot?I'm using a stock airbox and a 4into1... Seems kinda high for main jets using airbox