Topic: Two 400/4s, lack of confidence and a need to start somewhere.

[vivvov]

Hello All

I've been reading Project Shop folk's threads for a while now. Never posted.

I'm going to preamble now..hope folk's don't mind blather.

I've acquired, over time, two 400/4s.  They're nothing to write home about but they're both complete bikes and less of a project than some I've been reading.

I just attempted to post a back pic here off them but ?? bit of a Luddite so basically have no idea how to post pictures on forums...I'll figure it.

Backstory/Introduction

Bike 1.   I was sitting with a friend and his friend called.."Want to buy my 400/4?..er nope, 7 bikes already but he will".  I will? I will.  Never mind that I haven't got a bike licence..for £200, who wouldn't buy a bike.  Never allowed to have one as a kid.."Death machines".  Money spent, licence acquired, MOT acquired but as I drive back from the MOT, the bike's doing 20mph max and I've got the whole of South London up my jacksie cursing and blearing away on their horns. 
Dry(ish) stored it in various places.  I pull the carbs and only manage to damage the seal on one of the needle jets, so it leaks fuel from the over flow..basically I fart around damaging small parts and making more work  Friend says..capacitors.
The chrome's never been great, (eg there was originally chrome, and steel, on the front mudguard where the fork bracket is..I got a bracket shaped hole..with a sticker over it..fibreglassed it in the meantime).

I got otherwise busy (work, 2 narrowboats, bought a flat, went to Uni again). So the bike rests in my old dad's basement..me and him manhandled it there (him muttering "death machines"..found out he used to drive his brother's BSA in the early 60s), through a 4 foot by three foot door down 4 steep steps..he's 75, fit but I'm thinking "argh, don't you die on me".

Bike 2.  Next up, I think "got to sort it".  So bike 2 comes along..because I think, donor bike..One bike stock and one bike maybe cafe racer.  Also I ended up on ebay looking at a full 400/4 with it's rocker cover off due to a camchain adjustment that started 17 year ago, then ended up in the shed because it started to rain on the day way back when. Really nice fellow, I bid £300 and never expected to ended up with it plus a couple of useful manuals.  Carbs have been removed, motad exhaust removed and in good nick (for UK..that American chrome..does it not rain!)

Finally I start...I've stripped the the second bike.   I am not mechanically minded.  I took the pictures and videos as I went on a newly acquired smartphone (donated from brother)..I can barely use a dumb phone.. I have only one WTF moment when I'm starting to get the engine ready to remove from the frame.."clunk"..a nut hits the floor from "I do not know" where? 
Everything else fine apart from I got internal bruising on my knee (and slow healing) because the engine's bleeding heavy and I hadn't seen the post about lying the bike on it's side etc. until after the event.

I've started cleaning of the mud, grease and crud from the mudguards and frame.  Started to clean up all the chrome.  Ready to strip the paint where need be, aiming to de-nature rust with phosphoric acid (done this on various bits of the narrowboats) ready for prime and repaint (a place in Birkenhead does 81% phosphoric in litre amounts..only ever used 30 odd% but they put it in cola so can't see a problem).

Also started to think about the mod for the non stock bike.  Took a saw to the old seat foam (needed re-covering anyway) and carefully cut 2 inch off the top profile of the foam so, when I re-cover in leather, I'll have taken off the back bump and lowered the profile.  I was eyeing up a knacked, old tan leather jacket I have, but my gf stopped me ("you love that jacket")..so it's ebay again..got my eye on two tan leather tub chairs..use the seat cushion leather, reupholster the cushions (and the chairs go on the boat).

Now, the engine of bike 2, the dismantled bike that 17 years ago was due a camchain readjustment. 
I dropped the oil out of it..offish white for a second or two then black. 
After reading Rickb et al. and the issues folks have had with new gaskets/oil seals being not like in the olden days (when things actually worked), I do not want to take the head off and fix something that may well not be broken.  But considering that the carbs and rocker cover have been off for 17 years...Should I be looking to re-hone as inevitable??

The other thing is I saw a nice looking cafe racer with (some are going to hate this) ali comstar (not pitted chrome)wheels.  I am therefore considering rejigging the non stock bike. 
I've got a pair of cb250n comstars and looking at cb400n forks mud guard and back brake.   Even if they are running gear for now whilst I consider new 400f rims/dechrome and powder coat the old rims and re-lace.
Will this setup work ok?

So that's kind of where I'm at.

This project will take a long time..this tends to happen with me..I've had a narrowboat since 94.  Got it as a shell, put the engine in, made it liveable, haven't finished it. Got another one..guess what..made it liveable, haven't finished it.
So I was reluctant to even post because people on the posts put me to shame with their expertise and speed of action.  Was just tempted to be in the background but thought...Comstar wheels, I need to check this set up...Hone or not hone.. then got carried away.

Bit of a long hello plus I'm not even sure if I've posted on the right place, but when I joined I gravitated to the project shop section.

Vivvov

[MoMo]

Welcome,  seems to me that you have two rather massive projects on hand.   First place to start on bike one would be disassemble the carbs and spotlessly clean all parts, especially the midrange emulsifier jets, reinstall carbs then do a total tune and service(here it is called the 3000 mile service). Second bike I would remove the top end and inspect( the motor does not have to be removed from the frame to do that).   

When you click preview for a post there is an option lower left that says attachments and other options, click that and you will have the ability to add photos(but they do have to be properly sized),  or use photobucket.com.  Keep asking questions here as there are many experienced members who can guide you through most any problem....Larry

[vivvov]

Thanks Larry

Massive projects..Now I guess I know how Rickb must have kind of felt first post. 

[MoMo]

Thanks Larry

Massive projects..Now I guess I know how Rickb must have kind of felt first post. 

You're welcome.   Depends on how much spare time you have to devote to each project, first bike could be done in several days by an experienced person, second a week or two.  That is if all parts are on premise, and that never happens with these older bikes,  soooooooooooo add a factor of 10x or more.  I have done 7 400 fours over the past 5 or 6 years, average time is 6 months-latest is way over a year as I keep getting sidetracked by work and this olde money pit of a house.  Here is a link to  my favorite build   

http://s705.photobucket.com/user/photolar/library/white%20400%20four?sort=6&page=1

Larry

[vivvov]

Seen some of your many posts.
The olde money pits..out there, sucking you down.. Got a couple myself.  Narrowboats.  Plus looking to buy a house to refurb.  (I need a garage or at least a big groundfloor room to do the bikes in. Ha..strange logic).
I'll keep you posted..only coming up to 50 so still plenty of time yet!

Vivvov

[vivvov]

Just tracked back to Rickb's comment in Jan 2013 about poor seals.

"The OEM Honda oil valve gasket is on the left, the kit gasket on the right. The kit gasket was rock hard and felt more like nylon than rubber".
I'm vaguely sure it was posted that even UK first port of call, DS, hadn't a solution (but could be wrong).

If I'm going to do this, I might as well try and do it once only.
So before I trawl and trawl...
Did this issue get resolved by anyone?

[MoMo]

the little rubber gasket that goes around the oil orifice?  I've never had any problem with that, either reusing an old one or one from a Vesrah kit.  I think if the head is torqued in the proper sequence you would be good to go...Larry

[vivvov]

Good one Larry..Wasn't sure if I could recycle.  Got a torque wrench specifically for this job off Father Christmas and a spare head gasket with bike2 extra bits, so can proceed.

[vivvov]

Keep calling you Larry..sorry MoMo. 
I called a mate of my Dad "Bob" for ages because my Dad referred to him as Bob. Bob's deaf and Dad found me saying "hello Bob, goodbye Bob etc" hilarious for some reason. 
He eventually told me.  Bob's actually called Kevin.  Kevin's a builder by trader...there's a kid's programme called Bob the Builder..I'm calling him Bob, he's deaf and so not correcting me and Dad gets a laugh every time. Simple folk.