Topic: which is better

[Ernie]

which is better perfomance wise 2 into 2, 4 into 4 or 4 into 1?

[kghost]

Which

[STLrocker]

generally 4-1 is best performing.

4-4 can be better on drag bikes running wide open throttle/high RPM only. 

[Jugghead]

Which

ohhhhhhh, snapp! [sic]
i have nothing positive to contribute to this post

[mrbreeze]

witch...wich...which.........WTH....who gives a care?

[DammitDan]

I've always heard that 4-1 actually makes the performance go down in many cases (but I think it's mostly because people don't properly tune the bike after the change)

[kghost]

witch...wich...which.........WTH....who gives a care?

Depends which witch ya marry

[cben750f0]

ultimatelyy it comes down to the tuning after the install... you dont change anything, and of course its gonna be worse(i most cases).... but you are gonna need some back pressure, and from what i can make out , a 4-1 scavenges exhaust out of the other cylinders, while a 4-4, doest have that advantage... though if i am wrong i am sure i will be corrected... .

wich witch ......INDEED!!!!!

peace

[Ernie]

forget I asked

[KB02]

For most street applications, a 4 into 1 is best performance wise. When yu get onto the track or on a strip, a 4 into 4 could be considered best as each cylider can be individually tuned for optimal performance to cshave off that last .0001 of a second.

Looks wises, the 4 into 2 just looks cooler. 

[eldar]

Ahh no way! 4 - 4 looks the best. There are so many bikes out there that are 2 pipers or 1 that it is sickening! 4 - 4 is relatively rare.

[aptech77]

I've always heard that 4-1 actually makes the performance go down in many cases (but I think it's mostly because people don't properly tune the bike after the change)

No Way. Who told you that?

[DammitDan]

Maybe for long distance riding?

I know 4-1 is better for off-the-mark and drag races.  But at higher speed doesn't the performance decrease?

[Sam Green Racing]

I think you got that back to front Danny
As a rule 4 into 1 gives a stronger top end.
4 into 4 is better for all round performance.
I remember someone posting on this that had
done some testing with yoshi and the 2 into 2
was a waste of time.

[mrbreeze]

witch...wich...which.........WTH....who gives a care?

Depends which witch ya marry

[Jugghead]

I am curious about this now, too.  (After my lame jibe at Ernie for the spelling)

Why do the 400F "SuperSport" and 550F "SuperSport" have the 4-1 exhaust if it gives less performance?
One would think, logically, that to have a bike be distinguished as a SuperSport,
that it would be tuned to higher specifications, and have performance enhancing modifications.
I dunno.
 
Maybe what I am asking is:
What makes the SuperSport models different from the regular models? Is the 4-1 exhaust cosmetic or practical? Any other differences?

[aptech77]

4 into 1 hands down is BETTER. It has a better sonic affect which will make more power on low, mid, and top end ranges. How many modern day sport bikes do you know with a differant config? IMO it looks better and is less weight to pull around. The less weight itself does not make more power, but the flow and pressures of the sonic wave like, burnt exhaust in a single chamber does. On my CM400for example, there is a center "power chamber" the connects the two sides to create this sonic affect which inturn creates a better pressure flow and more power.  Sonic affect creates better back pressures and lower exhaust gas temperatures. This will affect engine performance and throttle response. At lower cylinder temperatures, the engine runs cooler, stronger, more consistently.

[nteek754]

Hey all in my three decades of  rideing biulding raceing these old dinasours (witch I dont regret a mile)  the foe into one kerker in my opinion has the peformance by far  and its all because of the push me pull me nope Im not doctor doolittle but when  cylinders fire going out one exit it pushes the exhaust out and as it is leaving it is sucking or pulling the exhaust out now with 4 into 4 all you get is push now a while back there was a  4 into 2 pipe called the X pipe for my bike 73  750 K  on ebay brand new pipe and the critics raved about its performance  but it didnt meet reserve so didnt sel and I couldnt spring 500 + for it but I would love to see one and hear one  the numbers on them were way ahead of the 4 into 1 4 into 4 4 into2  power gain threw out the powerband  some one buy one and tell me what happens then I might  sell a bike and buy an X pipe good luck seven fifty four ever Craig in Maine
.0000

[eldar]

Sound waves have nothing to do with anything. It is about exhaust expansion and back pressure. The only thing I know of that used sound waves to alter engine operation was the sr-71. Well we are not going mach 5 and are on the ground. 

If sound truly affected anything, then we would all do straight pipes and by now, most of us should know that most turbo muffles these days work just as good as any straight pipe unless you are talking dragsters or some other HIGH performance engine. I dont care what is done to these bikes, they are not high performance, you will not win any races against a modern bike.

Anyways, I dont think the 4-1 is the end all be all pipe. I think the 4-4 has its advantages not to mention, looks so much better. If I want to look at a 4-1, I can look at any crotch monkey bike on the road. Whoopy on the 4-1, I will take my 4-4 any day even if it is just for looks.

As a final note, any possible gain that could MAYBE be had from a 4-1 can be had other ways, without having to scavenge for some beat up kerker.

[Klark Kent]

i've thought it odd that 'performance' bike exhaust is 4 into 1 but if i want to supe' up the old car i throw on a dual exhaust instead of one.  the dual would be two 4 into 1s though on a v8 so maybe there is some logic lying just below the surface.
maybe not
-KK

[aptech77]

First of all Master k8 sorry, but you are mistaken . I think you need to read up on "sonic affect" and "revisionary affect", and its relation to exhaust gas pressure and engine performance. The explanation I gave was given to me buy a HONDA engineer/tech. and what I have read. I NEVER said these bike can beat modern sport bikes. I "said" how many use something other than a 4 into 1. The flow of the  pressure created is what makes power. "It is about exhaust expansion and back pressure" . That is what sonic/revisionary affect IS,  pressure. " I think the 4-4 has its advantages". NOT over a 4 into 1. And I think that was the original question posted. "I want to look at a 4-1, I can look at any crotch monkey bike on the road". K8 if I remember correctly the ORIGINAL 400F was a sexy  4 into 1. It is Not a modern day sport bike, but was HONDA on to something? "As a final note, any possible gain that could MAYBE be had from a 4-1 can be had other ways, without having to scavenge for some beat up kerker" Yes, other way to make power are there, but because a 4 into 1 IS BETTER and someone is trying to get all the performance they can, someone that knows about the advantages of the 4 into 1.....ie power, less weight, better throttle responce, not some ugly missing trumpet section of four, will  choose a 4 into 1. I think you can still find new 4 into 1,  right?    Nothing wrong with a 4 into 2 or 4 into 4. If that works for you, fine, but in the performance world 4 into 1 is better, and I think that WAS the question. And a final note, there are other makers of 4 into 1's not just Kerker. Read up.

And to Klark Kent, car engine performance and bike performance are two TOTALLY different things, but maybe YOU got the idea. If K8 and others are so stuck on multi pipes, why don't all sport cars and bikes use  6,8,12 pipes out the rear?   

[Klark Kent]

"And to Klark Kent, car engine performance and bike performance are two TOTALLY different things"

i would think they diverge at some point, but on the level this conversation has stayed at i believe any internal combustion engine would apply.  but i would love to learn why my assumptions are wrong- and not just THAT they are wrong.
-KK

[DammitDan]

Can we go back to arguing about wich witch now?

[ProTeal55]

Their Vs. There
?

When I first got my scoot , it had a 4 into 2 on it.
Good power all over - not so good sound.
I have since switched to a 4 into 1 , and I am very happy.
Wicked sound (baffles are 4 women), and crazy top end power.
I might of lost some down low, but I cant tell......

[eldar]

well ap, look at dragsters, they use a pipe for EACH cylinder. So does nascar or did anyways. Sprints and minis all use a pipe for each cylinder. So tell me MR. know-it-all. How does a bike engine differe from a car engine? Both use valves and a cam and pistons and all the same basic parts. What, because our engines are "under-square" they are different?  Expansion is NOT sound. You take ANY type of gas or liquid and put it in 2 different size chambers. there is NO sound made. The sound is from the burning of the fuel which is changed by the pipe it must go through.  The difference between exhausts is caused by the amount of expansion and and how the gas escapes.

You take your 4-1 and seal off the opening and create 2 or more separate exits for the gas. You have not changed the expansion or the sound, you have changed the amount of exhaust that is allowed to escape and as such, the characteristics of your pipe are now different.

If 4-1 was the top pipe ever, the x-pipe would never have been made. Every bike on the planet would be using a 4-1. Obviously, that is not the case. You choose the pipe based on your engine configuration.

So you can assume all you want about which pipe is better but the bottom line is that "best" depends on application.

Besides, whoopy on what a "honda engineer" supposedly said. Funny how the current fastest bikes are suzuki and kawasaki.

So until you can produce a dyno for your bike from a real shop and not some homebrew garage, that shows your 4-1 is best in ALL aspects, maybe you should back yourself up a little.

I NEVER said 4-4 is the best. I said I THINK it looks the best and could work better in some applications. Not only that, but if you read the rest of the comments, you would see that there are others that think a 4-1 is not the best all around either. So it is not just me. Some of these people have had these bikes longer than you have for sure.

you want to argue and slander, then lets pm.  Otherwise, get over it. I stated my opinion, you dont like it, thats just too damn bad. I am entitled to it all I want, as you are, regardless fo how might be more right or wrong.  You dont like that, move to china.