Topic: Can't get Cyl 2-3 timing to set...

[scartail]

Got my bike this past Thanksgiving and I've been chipping away at little issues since. It's a '76 CB550.

Anyhow, my first attempt to set/check timing has been not a successful one. I set the gaps in the points. No issue there. Then I start by statically setting the timing. From what I have been reading here, I'm quite sure I got the markings correct... But just in case... there are a total of 4 tick marks on the rotor. In this order... (1) TDC, (2) Idle/Static Fire, (3)Lower limit for full advancement, and (4) upper limit. I hope my understanding is correct.

After setting what I think is correct, I fire the puppy up. Grabbed my timing light, and targeted the 1-4 cylinders at idle. It's off by several degrees. Checked the 2-3, and off by similar amount.

To get the markings to line up at idle, I had to tighten up the gap to about 0.011", after messing with all the plate adjustments. I then moved on to the 2-3, timing was still off. I bottomed out the correction/plates, but I still can't get them to line up. I tried gapping the point to 0.011", but still no avail.

Any ideas? Is there something I must do before setting gaps and timing?

The bike runs like crap. It idles inconsistently. And it hesitates when driving around.

Thanks in advance.

[Cvillechopper]

Just as a recap, the points gap as well as the position of the plate effect the timing.  You first set the points gap, then adjust the plate until 1-4 are on the mark, then (if necessary, and almost always is) adjust the individual point for 2-3 to bring them on.  The plate has 3 screws holding it in place.  The 2-3 point adjusts position on the plate with it's own screw.  As you make this adjustment, a slight inward/outward movement is usually possible and will effect the timing as well.  Try pushing the point inward(or outward) as you tighten the screw.
Sounds like you're on the right track.  It takes a few times to get it right and gets better the more you do it.

Good luck.

[Killer Canary]

TwoTired has a complete write-up concerning the quirks of setting the timing on a 550. I believe it is in the FAQs.

[scartail]

I set the gap for both. The the three base screw for the over all adjustment, and finally the 2 screws for the 2-3. After messing with all the plate adjustments (because I couldn't get the 1-4 timing), I ended up with 0.011" gap on the contacts. The 2-3 is a similar story, bottomed out the plates, but can't get the timing. I then tried to close up the gap, but nothing.

[scartail]

TwoTired has a complete write-up concerning the quirks of setting the timing on a 550. I believe it is in the FAQs.

I thought I went though the FAQs thoroughly, I may have missed it. I'll look again. I used the owner's manual that someone posted here for reference. I'll look out for that FAQ. Thanks.

[750goes]

Just a thought as well

the points rubbing block or "heel" of the points wear out over a period of time if the points cam is not lubed up... I have seen a 750F2 points 2/3 that had the "heel" just about worn away - and you could not set the timing on them because of the wear involved. - if they are both worn - get some new ones,, also check the cam itself for grooving or roughness - this throws the timing out some more ..

one final thought - is the advance mechanism nice and free, or stifff as a board to move - this will also cause the bike to not have a quick response to throttle changes from idle up to say 3000rpm.

 

[pollpegj]

I took me probably 20 times to get it perfect, I could get 1-4 but not 2-3;my points were not gapped correctly.

[scartail]

one final thought - is the advance mechanism nice and free, or stifff as a board to move - this will also cause the bike to not have a quick response to throttle changes from idle up to say 3000rpm.

 

I should check advance mechism anyway. Regarding the lobe and follower, it doen't look bad, but it doesn't look great neither. Looks relatively wet from grease. Good sign I think.

I took me probably 20 times to get it perfect, I could get 1-4 but not 2-3;my points were not gapped correctly.

Maybe I just need more tries.

I did see "TwoTired" FAQ (it's the last entry of the ignition faq about the plates floating relative to the mounts. Maybe this is the reason why it was difficult to set timing on the 1-4 earlier. And my issue with setting 2-3 is related. Meaning, the 2-3 plate may be in the right adjustment range, but setting the 1-4 oddly cause the 2-3 issue.

Anyhow, all suggestions noted.

[bryanj]

It takes a lot of practice to get it all right in one go, Most important to concentrate on 1-4 FIRST.
Get the gap right at 14 thou (0.35mm) then get the static timing spot on the "F" mark

DO NOT USE A TIMING LIGHT (STROBE) WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING TO DO THIS.

What you do is connect a 12volt bulb, one contact to ground and the other to the blue(yellow) wire of the contacts you are working on----The light should come on as the marks line up.(When the contacts just open)

Keep re-checking the gap AND the static timing till BOTH are correct-----This is where the practice comes in!

Moving the gap alters the timing and moving the plate alters the gap!!!!!

having done all that repeat for 2-3.

You can then use the Strobe, if you wish to check that the timing is between the two marks you noticed with the engine running and the auto advance fully open (over 3,000 RPM if memory serves)

[Head]

I've had more than a few over the years that the points arm was not 90 degrees off the breaker plate,I've tweaked the point arm to about 90, Reinstalled and filed the point contacts to mate up correctly.Also had room to advance or retard the timing.This would happen to 1&4 or 2&3.  Head

[scartail]

I've had more than a few over the years that the points arm was not 90 degrees off the breaker plate,I've tweaked the point arm to about 90, Reinstalled and filed the point contacts to mate up correctly.Also had room to advance or retard the timing.This would happen to 1&4 or 2&3.  Head

I did notice that the contacts weren't align exactly. I didn't think it had much to do with the timing. Am I understanding you correctly?

[Head]

Yes,pretty much so,That might be all it needs, Head

[Gamma]

I have also got a brand new set of Points from D Silvers which will not time on 2 and 3.  Thought it was me, but have never had problems before.  I had to adjust both sets of gaps outside the recommended tolerences to get the static timing right on both sets, but am still not happy.  So I will be having another close look at these points soon.  This is not the first set of points I've adjusted!

[dusterdude]

after reading all this,ill be glad when i get my dyna s.

[Gamma]

Got a Dyna's'.  Points are just for initial running

[anparkinson]

I had exactly the same with my CB550. It seemed like I had to file the 2/3 plate to allow it to rotate more as there wasn't enough adjustment when I was using the strobe.

But, I reset the points and guessed where 2/3 should be by visually making them about the same adjustment as 1/4 and suddenly it all lined up with the strobe and I was able to fine tune them.

Just occasionally it would suddenly strobe way off again but I ignored it. The bike runs perfectly now. I wonder if somehow the coils give a secondary pulse that the strobe picks up on that's about 20 degrees out.....

[alexZan]

Hey guys, I am trying to set my ignition timing, but the 2-3 cylinder f line will not line up with the notch, no matter which way I rotate the plate.
Is this an issue with my cam chain placement when I reinstalled it after top end rebuild?
My 1-4 notch will line up, but then my 2-3 is so far off I cant even see the notch.
Thanks in advance!

[bryanj]

Cam chain has nothing to do with points and timg, they are done from the crank not cam.
Cheap points are usually the problem

[newday777]

Hey guys, I am trying to set my ignition timing, but the 2-3 cylinder f line will not line up with the notch, no matter which way I rotate the plate.
Is this an issue with my cam chain placement when I reinstalled it after top end rebuild?
My 1-4 notch will line up, but then my 2-3 is so far off I cant even see the notch.
Thanks in advance!

Welcome aboard the forum AlexZan
When asking for help please include what bike you are working on.

As bryanj said it isn't a result of the cam chain.
Where did you get the points from? If original that were on the bike, are they marked TEC?

[Deltarider]

Start with setting the gap of breakerpoints 1+4. It goes like this. The crankshaft needs to be rotated clockwise, to some 90 degrees after TDC 1+4. That's where the lobe on the advancer shaft has opened the breakerpoints at max, so that's the position to set the gap by using a feeler gauge (0,3-0,4mm).
When you look through the advancer peephole on a CB350F, you'll see what's in the first pic. In the second pic it shows what you see through the peephole of a CB500/550
Then proceed to breakerpoints 2+3 and do the same procedure. When you look through the advancer peephole on a CB350F, you'll see what's in the third pic.
OEM breakerpoints guarantee that they can be set almost in the middle of the adjusting range. With aftermarket breakerpoints, you may have to compromise.

[HondaMan]

Another item that can cause this issue is: the backing plate for the points assembly is too small. We ran across this in the 2002-2020 era when the Chinese were making whole plate assemblies (with wholly garbage condensors) that were almost 1mm too small in outside diameter. The whole plate would then shift downward from the points' feet spring tension, and then the gaps would not come out anywhere close to correct. Often the gaps would end up at about 0.010" when the timing marks were met.

The 'quick fix' then was to add a shim under the 2 bottom points plate supports to hold the whole plate upward against the points feet while setting the points: clumsy at best. Then after tightening the 3 screws, we'd pull the shim(s) back out. The CORRECT fix is to get a genuine Honda points plate, and points. (The Chinese points were also made to incorrect geometry.)

The Chinese-made condensors also do not work. From brand new, most failed within 50 miles. This problem is still occurring in those parts coming from 4into1.com today (genuine Chinko parts, delivered to your door...).