Author Topic: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs  (Read 4423 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GizmoDuck

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« on: August 25, 2015, 07:13:44 AM »
Rebuilding the turn signals and dash indicator lights and need new bulbs all around.  Wanted to know if there were LED bulbs that would fit these sockets.

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 07:16:03 AM »
yes, there are.  dash lights are BA9S(base style), and turn signals are BA15S
search those numbers at superbrightleds.com

I used these for my gauge and tree lights.
Use the same color bulb as the color reflector/jewel for best illumination.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/ba9s-ba7s/ba9s-led-bulb-1-led-ba9s-retrofit-car/3/#/attributes/30
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 07:20:21 AM by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 08:06:32 AM »
Stick with the stock incandescent turn signals most led pnp bulbs are not at bright as stock.

Offline camelman

  • Man... Myth... Legend
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,899
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 09:09:49 AM »
What about NPN bulbs?  Just kidding. :)

If your bulbs are burned out, or just not bright enough, then try new bulbs before going with expensive retrofits. The stock bulbs will dim over time, so replacing them might get the brightness back that you're looking for. Headlights are a different story though, and a good HID retrofit can make a world of difference.
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 16,312
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 09:51:03 AM »
I had a LED bulb in my rear lamp. Original 5W/21W much better. I tried both 12 and 24 LED versions.
My H4 LED front however, is really good. The only lamp needed to be replaced by  LED. Bright white that make my trip safer.
Cars do not do stupid things as before, respect! I bought it for less power, 30W instead of std H4 60/55W
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CREE-H4-9003-LED-Headlight-Conversion-Kit-30W-White-Bulb-Car-Motorcycle-Boat-ect-/261884101696?hash=item3cf9824440
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 03:51:37 PM »
What about NPN bulbs?  Just kidding. :)

If your bulbs are burned out, or just not bright enough, then try new bulbs before going with expensive retrofits. The stock bulbs will dim over time, so replacing them might get the brightness back that you're looking for. Headlights are a different story though, and a good HID retrofit can make a world of difference.

My HIDs have the width of about 6 lanes of highway.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 03:53:40 PM by turboed13b »

Offline GizmoDuck

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 201
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 11:46:53 AM »
My HIDs have the width of about 6 lanes of highway.

What kind of bulb is that?

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 11:59:40 AM »
H4 HID i'm guessing.
Mine is about the same.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 01:00:34 PM »
My HIDs have the width of about 6 lanes of highway.

What kind of bulb is that?

It's a HID projector retrofit.

Offline Muckinfuss

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 380
  • "I plan to live forever.....or die trying."
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 01:06:23 PM »
screw comparing watts or bulb 'type'....it's the lumens that matters.  two bulbs of the the same lumens put out the same amount of visible light.  The only way one can be brighter than another is if the lumens are greater.
1984 Sportster 1000cc XL
1988 Heritage Softail
1974 CB550
1989 Corvette

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 02:03:54 PM »
screw comparing watts or bulb 'type'....it's the lumens that matters.  two bulbs of the the same lumens put out the same amount of visible light.  The only way one can be brighter than another is if the lumens are greater.

Actually it is the housing or projector design that dictates which one has the brightest and useable light. 
 



Offline Muckinfuss

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 380
  • "I plan to live forever.....or die trying."
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2015, 09:01:34 AM »
turbo....no...it's not.  someone has misled you and you've continued in many posts to put forth your lighting evangelism.  If you want to talk to an expert, let me know and I'll hook you up with a senior engineer at GE Lighting, NELA Park.

Definition: “A lumen is a unit of measurement that describes how much light is contained in a space or the brightness of a light source.”

Lumens are a measure of light output at the source.  Brightness of light is measured in two parts...lumens and Kelvin (color).  This is a universal definition and a given in engineering and physics.  Candlepower is a measure of light rcd at the 'target' and is distance sensitive....a variable given an equal measure of lumens.  Your projector design determines the spread of the light, not the voracity at any point in its travel nor it's 'brightness' as it reflects back.  There is real science involved in lighting...not guesswork.  It's a combination of all three plus color that create the subjective perception of "better".  For example, a dual filament bulb, such as an 1157 has two lighting intensities..the running and the stopping.  An 1156 with the same 'high' filament intensity, expressed as lumens........will appear brighter in use because the delta between the running light intensity and the the 'high' or stop light will cause the perception of a dimmer output. There are manufactures who have taken this into account and put more watts into the high filament and fewer into the running so the the output appears brighter, but it's a perception issue.  Another perception issue arises with comparing LED to incan bulbs.  The standard 1157 bulb will output about 400 lumens when both filaments are operating.....the 40+ LED 1157 ouputs considerably less (200 to 380 depending on number of diodes), however, using a red LED of 220 lumens behind a red lens makes the LED appear (perception) equal to and in some cases brighter than an LED replacement 1157 that uses white diodes.  This is because of the filtering of non-red light done by the lens and has nothing at all to do with the reflector shape or material behind the bulb.

The generalized purpose of the HID projector style housing is twofold, one to keep from blinding oncoming drivers.  Note that the original poster was asking about turn signals, so I was never really sure why the whole HID + projector had any relevance.  The second purpose of the projector design is to limit spread of light into a more focused beam patterning that is, in fact, a benefit when facing forward, but of absolutely no importance at the rear of any motorcycle.  This pattern given by a properly designed projector housing will be the result of two items, the rear reflector and the magnification lens ahead of the bulb.  My engineer buddy tells me that what is achieved in a perfect world is a sharp cut off of light at the edge of the beam....nothing more, nothing less.  Again, not relevant to any rear facing lights.
1984 Sportster 1000cc XL
1988 Heritage Softail
1974 CB550
1989 Corvette

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2015, 09:21:23 AM »
Nice Muck. +1


'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2015, 10:48:42 AM »
turbo....no...it's not.  someone has misled you and you've continued in many posts to put forth your lighting evangelism.  If you want to talk to an expert, let me know and I'll hook you up with a senior engineer at GE Lighting, NELA Park.

Definition: “A lumen is a unit of measurement that describes how much light is contained in a space or the brightness of a light source.”

Lumens are a measure of light output at the source.  Brightness of light is measured in two parts...lumens and Kelvin (color).  This is a universal definition and a given in engineering and physics.  Candlepower is a measure of light rcd at the 'target' and is distance sensitive....a variable given an equal measure of lumens.  Your projector design determines the spread of the light, not the voracity at any point in its travel nor it's 'brightness' as it reflects back.  There is real science involved in lighting...not guesswork.  It's a combination of all three plus color that create the subjective perception of "better".  For example, a dual filament bulb, such as an 1157 has two lighting intensities..the running and the stopping.  An 1156 with the same 'high' filament intensity, expressed as lumens........will appear brighter in use because the delta between the running light intensity and the the 'high' or stop light will cause the perception of a dimmer output. There are manufactures who have taken this into account and put more watts into the high filament and fewer into the running so the the output appears brighter, but it's a perception issue.  Another perception issue arises with comparing LED to incan bulbs.  The standard 1157 bulb will output about 400 lumens when both filaments are operating.....the 40+ LED 1157 ouputs considerably less (200 to 380 depending on number of diodes), however, using a red LED of 220 lumens behind a red lens makes the LED appear (perception) equal to and in some cases brighter than an LED replacement 1157 that uses white diodes.  This is because of the filtering of non-red light done by the lens and has nothing at all to do with the reflector shape or material behind the bulb.

The generalized purpose of the HID projector style housing is twofold, one to keep from blinding oncoming drivers.  Note that the original poster was asking about turn signals, so I was never really sure why the whole HID + projector had any relevance.  The second purpose of the projector design is to limit spread of light into a more focused beam patterning that is, in fact, a benefit when facing forward, but of absolutely no importance at the rear of any motorcycle.  This pattern given by a properly designed projector housing will be the result of two items, the rear reflector and the magnification lens ahead of the bulb.  My engineer buddy tells me that what is achieved in a perfect world is a sharp cut off of light at the edge of the beam....nothing more, nothing less.  Again, not relevant to any rear facing lights.

1. I was replying to camelman as he mentioned headlight retrofit and thats why I qouted him and only him. The OP also indicated he was looking for new bulbs all around....
2. I am an engineer
3. Last I have seen ge doesn't make headlight housings or projectors just bulbs itself. This is why your engineering buddy has his thought of a headlight having a  "sharp cutoff" wrong. The point of a headlight housings reflector or projector  is to distribute the light to make it the most usuable. If you really want learn how they are designed then pm me as it will massively clutter this thread. You can have a 2000 lumen flashlight on the front of you car but will you see better? Absolutely not if I have to explain why then you shouldn't be on here trying to preach your Google definition of what is better.
4.Yes white LEDs behind a red lens is a no no I give you that.
5. I already said the stock incandescent are brighter than pnp  led bulbs as they are not designed for the housing people are putting them in. See what I am getting at here the housing design is more important than the lumens the bulb put out.



Here is a very simple question you can answer. Take two different car models with 1157 taillamps. Same lumen output right? Then how can one of the cars have a brighter taillamp?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 11:55:48 AM by turboed13b »

Offline Muckinfuss

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 380
  • "I plan to live forever.....or die trying."
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2015, 11:21:21 AM »
1.  ??
2.  I've been hiring engineers for 25 years, I can guarantee that graduating with an engineering degree isn't a guarantee of knowledge.  Kind of like doctors....if you have a pediatrician, that's not necessarily the go to for Alzheimer's treatment.....even tho both would be M.D.   The fact that I know many GE Lighting engineers gives me a fair amount of confidence in their game.
3. GE has been designing integrated light assemblies for a gamut of applications using arc, filament and LED technologies ..... complete with reflector design and lens designs.  Note that the Edison Electric Light Company of 1878 became General Electric in 1892.  If anyone knows lighting, it would be them.  The fact that you don't know they have such a history in lighting design....perhaps you should look into that.   Your 2000 lumen flashlight would be bright as hell and shoot a pencil thin beam.  I'm not seeing how your hyperbole made your point.


to your question re 1157.......there isn't any standard for output....SAE or otherwise.  They only have to fit a range that is DOT governed.  Look closely....you will not see either watts or lumens listed for incandescent automotive bulbs other than aftermarket, non DOT approved lighting.  Two bulbs from two mfr's can, and usually do vary in output.  Two bulbs from the same mfr; ....a regulator that puts out too much voltage can cause one bulb to appear brighter.  Bad wiring can 'short' one wire's current into another causing the super bright light that occurs.  The single most likely cause however, would bee that one bulb is older than the other.  Filament bulb design has a 'half life'.  The more they are used, the lower the output.

just as a vehicle's fuel efficiency is measured in miles per gallon...not the design of the tire tread or color of paint,  the efficiency of lighting systems are measured in lumens.  Specifically lumens per watt.  Incandescent = 11 to 17 lumens per watt.  Halogen 12-22.  White LED 40-100.   Auto HID metal halide.....75-100 lumens per watt.  The best LED and the best HID are essentially equal in output.  If they would be of the same Kelvin, they would look to be of the same brightness as well.   Nothing you do to the lens or the reflector for any of those technologies will change the brightess....only the distribution pattern.
1984 Sportster 1000cc XL
1988 Heritage Softail
1974 CB550
1989 Corvette

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2015, 10:47:25 AM »
In all the OEM projectors and reflector headlights the only thing I have seen ge make is sealed beam which is outdated technology anyway.


I have the best led projectors and the best hid projectors sitting here with me. The LED is good but nowhere near hid yet.

I will tell you a good example of how you are wrong. In 96+ the Mazda rx7 changed the third brake lens by removing the middle diffuser and integrated it into the outer lens but nothing else changed. Now guess what!? The third brake light  is noticeably brighter even to the human eye. How is that possible since you say it doesnt matter? Also yes it is on the same car with the same bulbs in the same garage. Again pm me if you want some pictures of the differences or whatever.

As you can tell I like to base my knowledge on real things in real life. I don't speak from Google knowledge or what my buddy told me is impossible.



Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2015, 10:52:03 AM »
^^ based on your example, the light pattern has changed, focusing the light.
Still, the light source output has not changed.
Brighter? No
More Focused? Yes.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2015, 11:13:45 AM »
^^ based on your example, the light pattern has changed, focusing the light.
Still, the light source output has not changed.
Brighter? No
More Focused? Yes.

We are not arguing that the source output changes. It is whether or not with the addition of optics (housing design) makes the light output brighter.

If you are saying the output becomes more focused then you are agreeing with me because it does indeed get brighter. For example those adjustable flashlights. When the beam is spread out you have a flood beam but the brightness is diminished. When you focus the light more you create a bright hotspot which is brighter.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 11:59:25 AM by turboed13b »

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2015, 11:15:37 AM »
The small superbright LED bulbs bleed slightly at the oil and neutral light. At night you will see a very small glow due to electricity leaking across these two switches through the oil. Signal indicators and high beam do not leak. With the regular bulbs it is not an issue. Nothing to worry about but it is there.

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2015, 11:31:54 AM »
The small superbright LED bulbs bleed slightly at the oil and neutral light. At night you will see a very small glow due to electricity leaking across these two switches through the oil.
This is a function of your wire harness, not the bulb itself.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline rotortiller

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2015, 08:03:49 AM »
No it's a function of the switches. Take the wire off the switches and the issue is gone.

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,538
  • I'm back
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2015, 10:28:56 AM »
As far as attention value, I favour ordinary bulbs over leds. It may sound strange but LED brake- and indicatorlights do not draw as much attention as bulbs do. Maybe the reason is that ordinary bulbs glow on and off, where Leds are either on or off. In other words: with glowbulbs there is more chance you'll see something is changing. A couple of days ago I almost ran into a bus in front of me. I had missed glowing brakelights in my eyesight and the clean Leds had not alarmed me at all. And this was not the first time...
As far as any conversion for headlamps, kits that are not officially approved are out of the question for me.
The best headlightlamp I came across so far is the Philips X-treme Vision Moto halogen. The award winning design is brilliant and it came out best in several tests. It gives incredible light in the right beam pattern. Make sure you have the Moto version that shows yellowish in the reflector but nevertheless projects stunning white light on the road. Now, why did Philips make the Moto version appear yellowish in the reflector? Many cars nowadays have their headlights on in daytime. Motorcyclists regret that. Before only we motorcyclists had our headlight on and so we had an advantage in being noticed. For this reason Philips gave the Moto version exclusively that yellowish appearance in the reflector so your headlight will stand out and you'll be recognised as a motorcyclist again. They are a bit costly but their H4 as well as their H7bulb have a much longer lifespan than conventional halogen lamps. They can withstand vibration, no extra wiring or components are needed, and... it is legally approved.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 01:07:23 PM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2015, 11:32:49 AM »
I have a ton of headlight projectors at my disposal so I change my setup like my underwear. They are all retrofits so not exactly legal but better than stock. I am still running the fx-r projector the only thing I don't like is the sharp cutoff. This winter i'm going to switch out the lens for a fresnal one or retrofit a koito bi-led projector which will simplify my wiring harness.

My friend just ordered a jw speaker led headlight from me which are the same as the Harley day maker but without the $400+ price tag. Will let you guys know how good they are.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 11:36:30 AM by turboed13b »

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2015, 12:20:16 PM »
do you have a link to the fx-r projector?
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline turboed13b

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: CB350F 1973 Bulbs, Are there LED replacement bulbs
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 01:27:19 PM »
do you have a link to the fx-r projector?

I don't have a website up but they are Morimoto brand. I sell them in singles so if you want one let me know!