Topic: CB550 - Dropped the pan and don't like what I see

[imgnr]

With everything else about this bike, the PO(s) messed up what they did.  I started to put the rebuilt head back on when I read that a lot of people miss the "slot" when installing the cam chain adjuster.  Also, the strainer could be dirty.

Can you please let me know what you think?

- Looks like the PO did miss the "slot"?  I think I see the bottom of the adjuster poking out.
- What is that hose hanging out?  There is a metal clamp at the end so I'm guessing it needs to go somewhere?
- Anything else look out of sorts?

Thank you in advance and hopefully I'll learn enough to post some useful stuff eventually.

[calj737]

Mostly looks like the oil is water contaminated. A really good flush with Diesel or Kerosene would be a good idea. Also, pull apart the oil pump and be dead certain it's clean and replace the seals if needed.

[Trad]

Yep, you can clearly see in the second photo that the tensioner missed it's place. That's a bummer. That hose goes to your oil pickup. Did you remove it and the screen?

PS: Check for primary chain wear while you are in there. There will be clear rub marks on the case if it's making contact.

[imgnr]

Trad,

Thanks for confirming. Have to pull the head back off but at least that's the only thing I put back on.

When I got the pan off the oil strainer/pickup was just sitting there. I don't see a nipple for the hose although the parts diagram shows one.  (edit - I looked up on e-Bay and this seems to be a cb500 part so I ordered a new one for $9 shipped).

Did the PO put a wrong strainer back on???

Also, how does it stay connected to the top part without sliding off? Should there be a gasket?

Am I missing some parts?

[imgnr]

Also, this looks like the wrong oil pan. Seems to be from a cb650. There's a weird semi circular thing cast into the aluminum? 

Should I grind off the semi circular thing?

As always, thank you.

[Stev-o]

Yes, that's a 650 oil pan.  The "oil dam" is a giveaway. I'd put the correct pan on.

[imgnr]

Id rather not spend the $50 (cheapest on eBay) if I don't have to. 

What's the purpose of that dam?

[calj737]

It prevents sloshing of the oil, it's also called a baffle. Since the pickup is located to the rear, the baffle keeps oil in that section of the pan to provide the greatest depth of oil for the motor to pick up.

[bwaller]

That hose should connect to a nipple on a CB550 oil pickup and supplies oil to the trochoid pump which helps lubricate the countershaft. The 650 pickup is longer and sits on cast legs built into the pan, which is also much deeper. The 500 or 550 pickup is shorter and has the "legs" cast on it's bottom. The 500/550 pan is certainly less deep.

As a result your 500 pickup dropped out of place.....likely when you removed the pan. Or else the engine would have starved for oil and seized. The countershaft would also have had less oil to lubricate the gears riding on bushings.

You need a 550 oil pickup and a 500 or 550 pan (which are the same) The 650 oil pickup doesn't have the nipple for the trochoid pump either.


http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa104/bcwaller/Race%20Bike/IMG_6425.jpg

[imgnr]

Thanks all!  I've already ordered the new screen/pick up. I will try to make the pan work as long.

So, as long as the bottom of the pan is pushing up on the pickup so that is doesn't drop out while riding then I should be good right?

If this is a terrible idea please let me know and I'll order a new pan.

[imgnr]

I got this pic off of the web. If the pan is holding the strainer in place, shouldn't there be wear marks on the pan where the four feet touch?

[bwaller]

The pan doesn't need to be tight against the legs of the strainer when it's in place. The countershaft pump hose helps hold the pick-up too, but if you use the 650 pan modify one or the other to be sure it cannot drop out.

[imgnr]

Bewaller,

Referring to the pic you posted, looks like the left one is a 550 pickup. What are the other two?  Suppose ones a 650 and the other a nighthawk?

[imgnr]

Btw, the adage to pay the most you can afford for the nicest bike you can find is totally true.

Buying a broken down bike for cheap will end up costing lots of $$$ in the end.

Although I'm sure some people get lucky.

[bwaller]

Left CB550, right CB650, center is a 550 piece lengthened with a part of the neck from a CB400F. The legs on the 550 piece are removed to sit on the legs in a 650 oil pan.

[imgnr]

Looks like the PO removed the legs on the 650 oil pan. Seems like there's three legs vs four from the 550s.

Here's a pic of what the 650 pan should look like. Btw why is it smiling at me?

[przjohn]

Btw, the adage to pay the most you can afford for the nicest bike you can find is totally true.

Buying a broken down bike for cheap will end up costing lots of $$$ in the end.

Although I'm sure some people get lucky.

How true, it amazes me, and I must admit, sometimes entertains as well, how many hacks are out there. One quick glance through Ebay or Craigslist viewing upon "Café Racers" & "Bobbers" is pretty amusing. This is a very civil forum, and that is a great plus, but it would be funny to have a "Hack" thread, kind of like ADVrider has the Craigslist DumbaZZ of The Week thread. Sorry for the hijack.

[toolguy]

FYI, you can get the adjuster back into the cup without removing the head, buy you do have to pull the cam. .  it takes some wiggling but I have done it and wrote a little message about how to do it a year ago. .  As I remember you do have to gently bend the adjuster so it has a little arc towards the cup, slitp it in and then push the adjuster bolt through the casting last.

[imgnr]

Took guy - saw your write up. Don't quite understand why I would have to loosen the engine mounting bolt.

Could I simply remove the cam adjuster mounting bolt and nut, push in the adjusting nut, then push up the bottom of the adjuster from where it's poking out in the bottom?

[toolguy]

Loosen the mounting bolts to pull the adjuster all the way out of the motor , in order to bend it gently. . You need to tilt the motor for the adjuster to clear the top frame to draw it upward and out.
If you try doing it you will probably experience what I mean by needing a little bend in the lower portion to allow it
to slip into the base pocket with the head on.

[imgnr]

I can feel the slot with my fingers but why isn't the chain adjuster going in?  I've used a flathead to try and lever it in and tapped it with a hammer to no avail.

[imgnr]

I can feel the slot with my fingers but why isn't the chain tensioner/adjuster going in?  I've used a flathead to try and lever it in and tapped it with a hammer to no avail.

[turboguzzi]

a 650 pan actually gives more oil capacity which is a plus, many racers use it on 500/550s, but like brent said, you need the longer 650 oil pick up which will have the nipple for the hose too, should be cheap though. if you are lucky and the engine was run with high oil level, maybe the pump still managed to pick up oil and no damage was done. if your cam journals show any abnormal marks then it is a sign that it was run without enough oil.
but the only way to really check the health of the engine would  be to do a total dissasembly and to visually check the main crank bearings for damage.
sorry for the bad news...

[imgnr]

Cam journals had marks on them. So I bought a new head. Hopefully that was the only damage.

Unfortunately I just ordered a 550 oil screen so am going to have to make sure the oil level is high. 

I'm doing research on installing the cam chain adjuster but the shop manual only has one sentence on it.

I'm hoping the PO didn't drop in a tensioner from another bike. 

Should it drop in place?

[eigenvector]

The 650 tensioner looks amazingly similar to the 550, but it wouldn't fit.  The bolts are like 1/8" too far apart on the 650 tension to fit.  I made the mistake of picking one up in the junkyard thinking it was the same - they aren't.  So likely it is the correct tensioner.

They can be a royal pain in the butt to install - just be fortunate that it is intact, a lot aren't.

[imgnr]

Thanks for confirming.  The bolts did fit.  Regarding yours being 1/8 off wonder if you could've moved / tacked on a nut to move the hole...

I think I'll try Toolguy's method of pulling out the tensioner and manually bending it.  I wonder if anyone else tried this method and it worked for them.

By manually bending the tensioner, will it affect the way it functions?

[eigenvector]

I would be amazed if you could bend it, it's not flimsy by any means.

Be mindful of where you bend it, at the retainer portion not where the slipper is (the slipper is what presses against the chain).  Otherwise I doubt it will affect how it works.

[RAFster122s]

It prevents sloshing of the oil, it's also called a baffle. Since the pickup is located to the rear, the baffle keeps oil in that section of the pan to provide the greatest depth of oil for the motor to pick up.

The oil dam also helps there be oil allowed to be picked up when you are leaned over pretty good for a turn to one side. It ccould be a fix to an issue with the larger oil pan in the 650.

[imgnr]

Thank you all for your comments. Since its not that much more work pulling the head and I haven't put the cam chain back on yet, I'm going to pull it and the cylinders just so see what else the PO did wrong. Per recommendations from another poster, I think I'll take the cylinders to be honed as well since the PO said he changed the rings right before he sold me the bike. I've since put in a few hundred miles of short rides because the bike was so unreliable.  I also have the gasket so might as well.

Glad I checked the tensioner based on recommendations from this wonderful site.

[Trad]

Good on you. You'll get it running right and there will be no guessing after you're done.