Topic: Choosing a new small zippy affordable car

[vames]

The lease on our 2013 Subaru Outback is coming up soon. It is an awesome car and I loved it, but there's no getting around the fact that its a lunky wagon. Given that we already have a minivan for the day-to-day with the kids, my wife and I have chosen that we deserve a to lease a small, zippy manual-transmission car. I think I have it narrowed down to either leasing a new Volkswagen GTI SE, or a Dodge Dart GT. Does anybody have any opinions on either of these cars or have a suggestion of another zippy compact?

http://www.dodge.com/en/dart/model_details/#model=gt&year=2016

http://www.vw.com/models/golf-gti/trims/2016/2016-se-4-door-performance-trim/

[vames]

I'd be all over the VW. Wouldn't go near a Dodge these days... Although, the new VWs for the USA are being made in Mexico, so the quality will change. 

Is that based on a bad experience with Dodge or just a general opinion? I have found my Chrysler Town & Country to be an incredibly high quality build.

[vames]

Thanks.

[eigenvector]

I'd stay away from a VW.  Who knows what monkey business they're doing under the hood now that the emission scandal has been revealed.

[eigenvector]

I won't try to argue with you about defending a company that lies about the products they produce.  I know all of them do or have done - even the one I work for and they've paid the price for it (and still are), but I would never pretend one is less terrible than another.  First VW, now Mitsubishi, maybe GM will own up too?  Who knows what else VW lied about with regards to their product.

The penalty they paid was far more than the simple fine - and rightly so.

If it was me and I needed a smaller car - I'd probably get a Focus or a Civic.

[Stev-o]

Personally, I wouldnt buy a Dodge either, bad reviews on Consumer Reports.

I rented a VW last year when my truck was in the body shop [some idiot ran into me] and I enjoyed driving it. However, it was not the Golf, it was a Passat.

Although I prefer Japanese vehicles, I think it could be a good choice.  Think GTI!

[seanbarney41]

I noticed that you are specing a manual trans...it's getting tough to get that

[74cb750]

I like the Dodge as opposed to the VW because the VW parts are very expensive and difficult to get
when the car gets older and needs work. Ask any mechanic that works on VW's that are out of warranty.

I used to drive a 300 and that thing was nice. 

[RAFster122s]

Mini Cooper 2nd hand is a fun little car. I would take advantage of the VW debacle and go VW over a Dart any day. The hype will leave a bitter taste in your mouth if the car has trouble.  While the VW has more expensive service/parts many dealers are very motivated and often new cars will have normal maintenance covered in first 2 to 4 years. It sounds like you might lease rather than buy...that would influence the decision as well.

[BobbyR]

Since you are leasing and not buying(as i do) long term reliability is not an issue. The Dodge products still suffer from some manufacturing problems. I have rented a lot of MOPARS including the 300. I found them lacking. Go with VW, it has European handling.

[Retro Rocket]

I'd stay away from a VW.  Who knows what monkey business they're doing under the hood now that the emission scandal has been revealed.

Lets see, Brilliant engines, their turbo models are excellent, euro handling and ride, Excellent build quality and one of the most popular small cars here in Australia and Europe, they have a huge following, the emissions "scandal" is all crap, they all do it, not one car I have ever owned did the mileage stated in the advertising and it all relates to "emissions", modern diesel emissions control is an utter joke and actually causes far more pollution......

[JWExperience]

I agree with retro if it was between those two. I've sold cars and driven all types and found dodge build quality to be poor. We drive the Chargers for work and after two years were going back to fords because the Chargers cost too much in repairs/maintenance. We could have bought two cars for the amount we put into some individual chargers. I like Toyota and Subaru for quality and resale which helps on leases too.


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[Desert-SOHC]

I'd stay away from a VW.  Who knows what monkey business they're doing under the hood now that the emission scandal has been revealed.

Lets see, Brilliant engines, their turbo models are excellent, euro handling and ride, Excellent build quality and one of the most popular small cars here in Australia and Europe, they have a huge following, the emissions "scandal" is all crap, they all do it, not one car I have ever owned did the mileage stated in the advertising and it all relates to "emissions", modern diesel emissions control is an utter joke and actually causes far more pollution......

Dead on retro...we got my mom a Jetta 1.8 turbo. It's a REALLY nice car, handles great, economical as long as you keep your foot out of it, and fast if you don't.

[flybox1]

WRX.  Zippy, with the benefits of AWD 

[mex3000]

I've owned VW's for over 10 years now, and they're awesome cars. We currently have a 2013 GTI,  and it's had no issues at all. One thing, some of the preventative maintenance services (DSG transmission service and timing belt) are a bit expensive. My dad still drives my old 2006  2.0T Passat, with 150k miles, and only major thing we had to fix was an airbag sensor.Other than that, just the routine services! Great car!!

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[Stev-o]

I always here this complaint:   "Foreign car parts are very expensive."

Yes, they are more expensive than domestic cars but parts needed for something other than routine maint are not needed that often. [speaking of vehicles with less than 200K miles]

I ran my last Tacoma truck up to 195,000 miles, only issue I had other than reg maint was the cat on the exhaust. It was a $300 repair at a muffler shop.
The truck was 10 years old with all those miles and still sold for $5000 cash in 1 day!
I bought another...

[Stev-o]

I always here this complaint:   "Foreign car parts are very expensive."

Yes, they are more expensive than domestic cars but parts needed for something other than routine maint are not needed that often. [speaking of vehicles with less than 200K miles]

I ran my last Tacoma truck up to 195,000 miles, only issue I had other than reg maint was the cat on the exhaust. It was a $300 repair at a muffler shop.
The truck was 10 years old with all those miles and still sold for $5000 cash in 1 day!
I bought another...

Partly due to the fact that most domestic parts are made in "lesser economy" countries. And folks here complain about cheap Chinese parts on their SOHC...

So true.  I try not to buy the cheap china crap, it can be difficult at times.

[Desert-SOHC]

I always here this complaint:   "Foreign car parts are very expensive."

Yup, just had to replace the front axles in our 06 CR-V...$800.00 each side, and new Honda axles were the ONLY axles that didn't have a drivetrain vibration, we tried them all...............go figure! But this is the first $$$ we have ever put into it at 10 years old and 170,000 miles. It's been rock reliable and lived the first 7 years of its life in the mountains and snow country.

[vames]

I'm leasing specifically because I never want to care about the price of parts or the long term reliability or what it will take to nurse it along to 200k miles.

I don't have any moral objection or mistrust of VW as a company. All corporations are #$%*ty in their own way. Theirs was not a direct people-killing mistake which is a plus.

I'm sure the VW is a superior car in all ways but I kind of like the look and feel of the Dart GT. I have an affinity for Mopar even in the wake of all its marriages and divorces. I have a red 72 Swinger in the garage.

I'm going to call my lease broker tomorrow and determine availability and price of each. Maybe that will help me decide.

Thanks all for the input. I'll post a pic when I get a car.


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[BobbyR]

I'm leasing specifically because I never want to care about the price of parts or the long term reliability or what it will take to nurse it along to 200k miles.

I don't have any moral objection or mistrust of VW as a company. All corporations are #$%*ty in their own way. Theirs was not a direct people-killing mistake which is a plus.

I'm sure the VW is a superior car in all ways but I kind of like the look and feel of the Dart GT. I have an affinity for Mopar even in the wake of all its marriages and divorces. I have a red 72 Swinger in the garage.

I'm going to call my lease broker tomorrow and determine availability and price of each. Maybe that will help me decide.

Thanks all for the input. I'll post a pic when I get a car.


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That is why i lease also. i don't need to own the downstream problems.

[vames]

Alright I tested both of those cars this weekend and there is absolutely no comparison. That VW GTI is really nice -fast, balanced nimble - feels like a much more expensive car. The Dodge is pretty cool looking and has some nice bells and whistles, but it drives like you just rented it from the counter at Hertz -- no personality whatsoever.

Picking up the VW this weekend.   

[JWExperience]

Congrats! Drive it like you stole it... You can give it back after all.


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[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, if you are leasing go with the VW over the Al Bundy car of choice. 

[BobbyR]

Alright I tested both of those cars this weekend and there is absolutely no comparison. That VW GTI is really nice -fast, balanced nimble - feels like a much more expensive car. The Dodge is pretty cool looking and has some nice bells and whistles, but it drives like you just rented it from the counter at Hertz -- no personality whatsoever.

Picking up the VW this weekend.

Just what I expected. Congratulations.

[Gene]

Honda Fit.  I loved mine.  But, sounds like you're already settled on the V Dub.  The problem I had with our Jetta was - take it in for a minor service and 20 other things needed adjusting.  Fun car to drive tho.

[evanphi]

Honda Fit.  I loved mine.  But, sounds like you're already settled on the V Dub.  The problem I had with our Jetta was - take it in for a minor service and 20 other things needed adjusting.  Fun car to drive tho.

COngrats on the VW choice, vames.

I would also have seconded the fit, even though it is slightly underpowered. But it is a wicked Honda.

My wife and I need a size upgrade from our 08 Yaris, so we are going to lease the Honda HRV (also a fan of not inheriting issues down the road). A mini-SUV. With another tried-and-tested SOHC engine, too! The same 1.8 that is in the Civics. Looking forward to it. 6spd manual, too!

[vames]

Yeah, if you are leasing go with the VW over the Al Bundy car of choice. 

Easy there my friend. You never know what's sitting in my garage.....



The 318 in there has about 250K miles on it. Runs fine but the valve seals are toast so I put up smoke screens at stoplights. I'm saving my pennies to put a rebuilt 360 in it.

[Duanob]

I always here this complaint:   "Foreign car parts are very expensive."

After owning a  Ford F150 I would say that's an old wives tale. I couldn't believe the cost of some of the parts and having to wait two weeks to get into the local dealer parts dept. I asked one parts guy "is mercedes making fords these days?" A rear left hard brakeline: $50 and a 2 weeks wait time. Heck BMW parts aren't even that expensive and hard to get. Of course I buy everything online these days but still when my F150 was up on blocks and I needed it to get to work the next day I needed the part fast. Good thing a local junk yard had a lot of fords trucks.

Back on topic I would go for the VW GTI, you're only leasing it for a couple of years and they are super fun to drive. Or a Mini Cooper S, better chance of getting it in a stick trans. My family quit being Chrysler fans about 35 years ago when the caravan came out. The trans fell out of them at 25K. All Chrysler did to rectify the proble was offer a super deal on the K-car which was another POS.

[Duke McDukiedook]

No way. That crazy 2016 Ford Focus RS is the spirit animal you want to drive. 

[flybox1]

No way. That crazy 2016 Ford Focus RS is the spirit animal you want to drive. 

Ohhhyeah!
MSRP: From $35,900
MPG: 19 city / 25 highway
Horsepower: 350 hp
Engine: 2.3 L 4-cylinder
Torque: 350 lb-ft

[Mantree]

My wife has a 2000 2.0 beetle and it is really snappy

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[Terry in Australia]

As far as reliability goes, if you are leasing a new car, any new car should be pretty good. Over here Jeep have a terrible name, I was going to lease a new Jeep until just about every second person in my work area had a first hand bad experience with them to tell me, so I leased a new Ford instead and so far it's been fantastic, and it's always nice to just drive it and not worry about budgeting for fuel, servicing etc.

One thing I need to sort out though, is changing the insurance so that if the car is written off during the life of the lease, I get another new car, and not someone else's problem. My current policy will only replace the car if it's written off in the first 12 months, so I need to find an insurer with a policy that will replace the car with another new car if it's written off over the life of the lease. Cheers, Terry.  

[Mantree]

Here ford has a bad name.  We all joke that it's an acronym for fix or repair dayly.  We also say Kia stands for killed in action

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[Mantree]

I always here this complaint:   "Foreign car parts are very expensive."

After owning a  Ford F150 I would say that's an old wives tale. I couldn't believe the cost of some of the parts and having to wait two weeks to get into the local dealer parts dept. I asked one parts guy "is mercedes making fords these days?" A rear left hard brakeline: $50 and a 2 weeks wait time. Heck BMW parts aren't even that expensive and hard to get. Of course I buy everything online these days but still when my F150 was up on blocks and I needed it to get to work the next day I needed the part fast. Good thing a local junk yard had a lot of fords trucks.

Back on topic I would go for the VW GTI, you're only leasing it for a couple of years and they are super fun to drive. Or a Mini Cooper S, better chance of getting it in a stick trans. My family quit being Chrysler fans about 35 years ago when the caravan came out. The trans fell out of them at 25K. All Chrysler did to rectify the proble was offer a super deal on the K-car which was another POS.

I never spent more that $150 on a part for my legacy and that was a new clutch with a new fork since it was starting to Crack where it rides on the pivot

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