Topic: CB350 Twin Build- Maybe? Thoughts?

[CBJoe]

Rose (wife) and I were discussing her motorcycle dreams tonight.  She is going to learn to ride this year and has been up and down on her dream bike.  For a while now she's been lusting after a CB77....however....

After much beer, gin, and deliberation, she has decided that she would like to start with the bones of a bike and build it up from scratch.  She's all about learning to wrench and is adamant on doing as much of the work herself as possible.  This is a long time dream of hers and we are now in a position to dive in full force.   

The idea would be a modified stock bike with all new wheels, suspension, electrics (eg. m-unit based), full engine rebuild, etc....Our final budget for the build would be around 5k$ for parts and external labor.

She is all about the C350 Twin as a starting point. She has a short inseam so height is a factor.  The idea here is to start with a title'd frame (at a minimum) and build from there.

So...after all that.  Here's my question   Any reason to not choose the 350 twin for this investment?  And from an engine perspective are there any specific model years to focus on?  Just signed up over at the HondaTwins forum, but thought I'd start here.

Cheers, Joe 

[seanbarney41]

To be honest, this sounds like a terrible idea.  Learning to ride on a vintage bike is not the way to go.  Best to learn on something dependable, easy to ride, with good brakes! and that is easily and cheaply repaired when the inevitable boo boo happens...did I mention good brakes?...and dependability?  cus cb350 twin has none of these.

I learned to ride and wrench on a cb350 twin.  It was actually such a miserable and frustrating experience that I gave up motorcycles for several years afterwards.

[CBJoe]

To be honest, this sounds like a terrible idea.  Learning to ride on a vintage bike is not the way to go.  Best to learn on something dependable, easy to ride, with good brakes! and that is easily and cheaply repaired when the inevitable boo boo happens...did I mention good brakes?...and dependability?  cus cb350 twin has none of these.

I learned to ride and wrench on a cb350 twin.  It was actually such a miserable and frustrating experience that I gave up motorcycles for several years afterwards.

Thanks for the insight.  Can you clarify what made it such a frustrating bike over all the other quirks of vintage machines? 

This isn't necessarily the bike she will learn to ride on.  She's looking for something in this CC/size range to build and customize from scratch and the smaller twin has held her attention.

Cheers, Joe

[754]

They vibrate a lot.. Not sure I would deem it unreliable.  Biggest selling bike for Honda at one time..
 Lots of parts, you can easily put on a disc front end .. 73 350 came with a disc...
Too many of us started out on 350,s ...I say go for it.. But dont plan  any long trips..

[grcamna2]

They vibrate a lot.. Not sure I would deem it unreliable.  Biggest selling bike for Honda at one time..
 Lots of parts, you can easily put on a disc front end .. 73 350 came with a disc...
Too many of us started out on 350,s ...I say go for it.. But dont plan  any long trips..

CB350K4 twin,good choice 

[seanbarney41]

To be honest, this sounds like a terrible idea.  Learning to ride on a vintage bike is not the way to go.  Best to learn on something dependable, easy to ride, with good brakes! and that is easily and cheaply repaired when the inevitable boo boo happens...did I mention good brakes?...and dependability?  cus cb350 twin has none of these.

I learned to ride and wrench on a cb350 twin.  It was actually such a miserable and frustrating experience that I gave up motorcycles for several years afterwards.

Thanks for the insight.  Can you clarify what made it such a frustrating bike over all the other quirks of vintage machines? 

This isn't necessarily the bike she will learn to ride on.  She's looking for something in this CC/size range to build and customize from scratch and the smaller twin has held her attention.

Cheers, Joe

I am guessing since you are a member here, that you may be familiar with the 3000 mile tune up?  CB350 will need all of that about every 500 miles, not because preventative maintenance is a good thing, because the darn thing won't run.  Electric start rarely works but kicking is so nostalgic and cool, right?  How about when you stall it at a busy intersection and neutral is not so easy to find...have you priced air filters for these?  Did you know that you can't work on much without taking the tank off and because of the cross over pipe you must drain the tank every time it is removed or you are gonna spill gas on the engine, hot or otherwise.  Or how about the awesome oiling system  that starves the cam and ensures that only the most carefully maintained examples survive more than 12,000 miles with viable cam bearings and the only way to fix this is another cylinder head from an engine just as worn out?...can you say spin trap oil filter?  And if somehow you get all this right, you are rewarded with a machine that is incapable of keeping up with modern traffic.

I am not saying it cant be done.  Because it can.  But if someone I cared about expressed an interest in motorcycles, I would advise them to start with the most modern, and dependable bike they can afford.  Learn to ride that, get done with the inevitable learners mistakes that WILL involve dropping the bike....then a person can make educated decisions about what exactly it is they like about motorcycles.

[scottly]

Building a bike from scratch is a lofty goal, even with experience. Start with a compete, preferably running bike, and let her learn how to work on it herself. BTW, I don't understand the fascination with m-units??   

[b52bombardier1]

An older 8o's Honda Rebel 250 might be a better choice for a first choice. It'll have some nostalgia and be an all around better bike.

Rick

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[CBJoe]

Points taken...Thanks for the feedback. 

[grcamna2]

The CB350 twin can be sorted-out and run dependably;not many get one w/ the intention of fully restoring 'a little CB350' twin though.. Many vintage CB350 twins have had lots of short-term owners who have moved-up to a bigger bike and get passed on to the next owner and they usually don't 'go all the way' with them. Visit hondatwins.net and check-out some of them,those dudes do take care of them well.

[540nova]

Totally disagree with Seanbarney41. If his bikes are so unreliable, that's on him. I've redone mine so that I'm totally comfortable taking them anywhere, any time, any distance. With modern electronic ignition, a rewire with good connections, or a thorough inspection/cleaning of original connections, there's no reason the bike should be any less reliable now than it was in 1974. I may be wrong, but I don't know of any reliability problems with oiling. If it's the same system as CB450's, there's nothing to worry about. They aren't the best choice for extended highway excursions, but they're great back road runners. I'm building one for my wife now.


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[540nova]

Regarding the crossover fuel tube, easily overcome with a Motion Pro quick disconnect. No tools needed, pulls apart and shuts off fuel, no spills, works great on my bikes.


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[calj737]

I think success of the project depends heavily upon how interested she is in the outcome. If she has a glamour eye for a 350, then its the perfect bike for her. You can easily modernize the brakes and suspension while still looking period correct, and thoughtful updating of the electrics and ignition should make the bike perfectly reliable, and fun.

I can't think of a better way to learn than to start from scratch. Armed with good manuals, this forum, and your own experience, she and her new bike will be along before Spring! 

[540nova]

I think success of the project depends heavily upon how interested she is in the outcome. If she has a glamour eye for a 350, then its the perfect bike for her. You can easily modernize the brakes and suspension while still looking period correct, and thoughtful updating of the electrics and ignition should make the bike perfectly reliable, and fun.

I can't think of a better way to learn than to start from scratch. Armed with good manuals, this forum, and your own experience, she and her new bike will be along before Spring! 

Well said, Cal!


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[CBJoe]

I think success of the project depends heavily upon how interested she is in the outcome. If she has a glamour eye for a 350, then its the perfect bike for her. You can easily modernize the brakes and suspension while still looking period correct, and thoughtful updating of the electrics and ignition should make the bike perfectly reliable, and fun.

I can't think of a better way to learn than to start from scratch. Armed with good manuals, this forum, and your own experience, she and her new bike will be along before Spring! 

Thanks Cal,  This sums up just about perfectly her thoughts and wishes on the matter.  To be honest I was pretty surprised when she brought it up to me.  Our first thoughts were to get a bike that had already been fully gone through and brought up to spec.  But now I'm on the band wagon to thinking it will be a fun adventure making something totally hers.

Now to keep an eye out for a titled frame and engine.  We need to get over to the HondaTwins site to learn more before starting

Joe

[calj737]

You can check out CognitoMoto's Fox 350 build. It's a bit modern, but he used an electronic ignition (HotShot I think?) specifically oriented towards the 350. I don't know if I'd recommend clip ons for a new rider either, but it does represent a thoroughly updated 350 Twin.

****Full disclosure: I had a bit of hand in that bike so perhaps I'm biased 

[540nova]

I'm using Renthal tracker bars on the wife's 350, to give her a slightly more upright position, to mimic her Ninja 300 position. That might fit the bill for your wife, too.


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[seanbarney41]

540nova, my bikes are totally reliable, thats why I will not own another cb350 twin.  I have owned 3 and all were turds.

CalJ, correct me if I am wrong as your post about this was a couple years ago...did your son not stuff your brand new 550 build into someones front yard when he was a new rider?  Wouldn't it have been nice if he was on a easily repaired or replaced $1500 ninja 250 instead of something unique you had hours of careful labor into?

This is all I am saying.

[CBJoe]

You can check out CognitoMoto's Fox 350 build. It's a bit modern, but he used an electronic ignition (HotShot I think?) specifically oriented towards the 350. I don't know if I'd recommend clip ons for a new rider either, but it does represent a thoroughly updated 350 Twin.

****Full disclosure: I had a bit of hand in that bike so perhaps I'm biased 

We've actually been using that bike as a starting point   She's not a big fan of the USD forks from a style perspective, so we're looking at the necessary pieces to use the R6 Standard forks. 

No clip-ons planned...looking for a more upright riding position for sure.

[CBJoe]

540nova, my bikes are totally reliable, thats why I will not own another cb350 twin.  I have owned 3 and all were turds.

CalJ, correct me if I am wrong as your post about this was a couple years ago...did your son not stuff your brand new 550 build into someones front yard when he was a new rider?  Wouldn't it have been nice if he was on a easily repaired or replaced $1500 ninja 250 instead of something unique you had hours of careful labor into?

This is all I am saying.

I completely understand your perspective and point of view here.  At the moment I'm not discussing the pluses/minuses of a specific style machine for a new rider.   By no means will I ever put a new rider on a machine that is unsafe with inadequate braking and crappy suspension. 

As I said, this isn't necessarily the bike that she does her initial learning on...we aren't there yet.  This is a discussion about having fun building a bike.  If she stuffs the project and changes her mind then hey...It's now MY project

Cheers, Joe

[carnivorous chicken]

Although I do like the 350Fs better, I think the 350 twins are great bikes too. I've owned a couple an wrenched on a bunch more, and find them to be reliable when sorted out. As someone pointed out, the quick disconnect alleviates the removing the tank problem. Honda made a ton of them and parts are pretty widely available.

I would echo the comment that building from a frame up is going to be a serious task, and getting something closer to riding condition might be not only easier but much less frustrating and time consuming. But if the goal is to start from the ground up, then there you go... There's a Honda Twins forum that is as friendly as this one, and there's some good advice out of there (as well as a few of us here who have both twins and fours.)

[540nova]

You know, I hear a lot about how crappy the brakes are on vintage Hondas. They're nothing like my 2006 CBR1000rr brakes, but the rebuilt front disc works surprisingly well on my 74 CB450. Truedisc milled and drilled my rotor, and I'm using stainless braided line, and an aftermarket pad (EBC?)
I would have NO problem sending a new rider off on my bike, as far as safety is concerned. The rear drum is pretty weak, but 75-90% of braking force is at the front, and I never use the rear brake anyway.


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[754]

I will, say this .. If you want to learn bikes, start on the 350 ..you be ready for anything..a year or two in..
 Start off on a Honda four you might go a few years and learn a lot kess, and not kniwwhat to do when you coast to the side of the road..
 
Plus I have to say, going from a 350 2win or Triumph 2win to a honda four, wilm give you an even greater appreciation than most will ever get.

 I for one am glad I came up on the 175 and 350 twins..

[calj737]

CalJ, correct me if I am wrong as your post about this was a couple years ago...did your son not stuff your brand new 550 build into someones front yard when he was a new rider?  Wouldn't it have been nice if he was on a easily repaired or replaced $1500 ninja 250 instead of something unique you had hours of careful labor into?

This is all I am saying.

He did lay it down gently in a swale to avoid an oncoming car in his lane. As for quickly and inexpensively replacing/repairing it, a plastic enshrouded Ninja would have cost my twice the value of the bike to replace. It is cheap enough to repair as I do the work. Youve expressed your opinion (multiple times) and each time the OP has thanked you for yours. Others have different input. I suspect Joe and his wife will make a decision they both feel comfortable with to suit her interests. as it should be.

This is all that needs to be said.

[02z06dave]

I started with vintage Hondas and have not really had anything newer other than quick flips that I never really rode. I don't see any issue starting with a vintage bike.  I would not recommend starting with just a titled frame and building from there. That is probably the most expensive way to build a bike.  If you start with a decent complete bike, you can sell off a lot of the parts you don't want to use and be in it for a lot less.  For example, I have a cl450 I'm going to be using for a project. I bought the complete bike for $400. I sold off the parts I won't be using and currently have $100 profit on it. Had I bought everything I still have separately,  I'd probably be into it for $5-600 at least. That's a pretty big difference.

Good luck with project, whichever route you choose