Topic: Starter Clutch

[mcswny]

Been awhile!

I've had this ongoing starter clutch problem for the past couple years, thought I fixed it twice and it seems to be getting worse.

I first replaced the caps, rollers, and springs WITHOUT replacing the actual gear. It seemed to get better briefly and then continue back on it's spinning way.

Then got a replacement gear off a forum member, I can't remember who? And swapped that in. Same thing, seemed to get better for a hot second and then continued on it's spinning way.

My question is when I first replaced the caps, springs and rollers WITHOUT replacing the gear, it caused them to wear rendering them already needing to be replaced when I put the new gear in? Is that possible? Should they all have been replaced together. My bike can still start, but and it runs fantastic, but this is starting to get to me. I'm sure I'm missing something simple or it really was just a matter of order of operations in terms of replacing parts.

Thoughts?

[bryanj]

The started clutch housing bolted to the rotor can wear and give problems

[mcswny]

Which part number? 21?
And what about the bolt wears and how does that affect it?

EDIT: oh wait, the clutch isnt on this schema... one minute

[mcswny]

Schema with the starter clutch

[bryanj]

Part number 3 on the first schematic, the bolt don't wear they are used to hold the parts together BUT  are supposed to be extremely tight and staked to stop them undoing

[mcswny]

Part number 3 on the first schematic, the bolt don't wear they are used to hold the parts together BUT  are supposed to be extremely tight and staked to stop them undoing

Hmm.. Ok. I'm going to pull this apart tonight or tomorrow and see if I see anything.

[bryanj]

It is very difficult to "SEE" wear as there is only a fraction of a thousandth of an inch between working and not

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Look for an irregular surface on the outside surface of the 'flange?' looking area on #4 in the second picture where the rollers grab the gear.

[mcswny]

It is very difficult to "SEE" wear as there is only a fraction of a thousandth of an inch between working and not

ahahaha, funnnn.

[Kevin D]

Since we are on the subject, my own starter clutch has been misbehaving from time to time. I got a rebuild kit from Yamiya $57 as pictured, not yet installed. At CMSNL the #3 part is NLA or €138 ouch when available.  The #4 part is $183 ouch at Yamiya.
 It has never been apart and never been a problem, but seems to be heading that way. I'm hoping the #3 and#4 are reusable and the kit will make all better. But I'm wondering if the mating surface on the #4 is roughed up, should I try and dress it with some #220 grit or just leave it alone?

EDIT: Yamiya shared a photo of what a worn gear looks like:

[mcswny]

Should the clutch gear and rotor be able to move independently of each other? even if the bolt is torqued to 72 ft pounds?

[scottly]

Not odd, Mac. If you looked, you might have noticed the rear wheel was turning, also. Were you in 5th gear? If the rear wheel was not turning, the clutch may have been slipping.

[mcswny]

excuse the shaky video but i think it translates

just not sure if i should be able to rotate the gear by hand clockwise. I can't counter-clockwise.

[scottly]

Yes, the starter clutch allows the gear to rotate clockwise, but not counter-clockwise.

[mcswny]

Yes, the starter clutch allows the gear to rotate clockwise, but not counter-clockwise.

Ok cool, thanks, tomorrow I'll take the rotor and gear off and inspect.

[mcswny]

Yes, the starter clutch allows the gear to rotate clockwise, but not counter-clockwise.

This worn enough to cause slippage?

[mcswny]

Anyone have the wear limit spec for the springs? I'm not seeing them in the manual I have?

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Yes, the starter clutch allows the gear to rotate clockwise, but not counter-clockwise.

This worn enough to cause slippage?

I've replaced worse. I don't think there's any official spec on this. I've wondered if this is something that can be machined smooth again??   

[mcswny]

I just can't imagine what else it would be, the other components we're all new 

[mcswny]

I found a fleabay seller in the city i live in that has this one for $20, its worth a shot. the sides look clean from what I can tell and it came off a bike with 8k miles.

[mcswny]

one last question before I stop blowing up the forum:
Since I replaced the springs, caps and rollers without replacing the gear, and there was still slippage, do you think I need replace those three components again for the new gear?

[scottly]

Inspect the rollers for wear lines, like those on the hub. The springs and caps aren't a wear issue. Also check the thin plate that covers the rollers for flatness and wear marks.

[scottly]

I've wondered if this is something that can be machined smooth again??

I'm working on it, Jerry.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Excellent Scott.    That one looks pretty typical.

[scottly]

That one is out of my K1 motor, and was working before I removed the starter, many years ago. Preliminary inspection shows uneven wear, as well as taper in the hub? I'll do some more accurate measurements tomorrow, now that the arbor is done.