Topic: 1975 CB400F with CL350 frame VIN?

[breadwinnercycles]

Hey All,

I'm new here. My intro post is awaiting moderator approval, but I wanted to get this question asked.

I have a 1975 CB400F. The engine is stamped as such, but the frame, which as far as I can tell looks like a 75 CB400 should, is stamped on the left side of the neck as a CL350 and the VIN plate matches that stamping. I'm thinking it has a theft in it's past and was covered up, but the work looks factory original. Here are some pics. Can anyone tell me what I've got?

Here's the bike without tank or seat:


Here is the engine stamping:


Here is the VIN:


And the stamping on the neck:


Seems a bit mysterious.
Thanks in advance for any help.
-Tony

[jas67]

The CB400F motor isn't really any more powerful than the 326cc twin of the CL350 and CB350.
The frames are quite similar in design, so, it doesn't surprise me that the CB400F motor might fit w/o a lot of trouble, esp, since portions of the mounts bolt on.    It is likely that Honda used the CB350 frame (which the CL350 is similar if not identical) as the basis for the CB350F, and the CB400F that succeeded it.

[flybox1]

In the state of WA, they title a bike based on its VIN, not the engine displacement.
I dont know if this will cause title or re-sell issues in your area
VINs should always be verified before purchase 

[kmb69]

The VIN appears to be a valid CL350K3. That does not appear to be a CL350 frame to me.
The CB350F and CB400F frames are very similar to a CB350 but differ from a CL350.
It appears someone has done a masterful job of grafting a CL350 neck to either a CB350, CB350F or CB400F frame.

[jas67]

It appears someone has done a masterful job of grafting a CL350 neck to either a CB350, CB350F or CB400F frame.

You're likely correct.   OP's frame looks to be a CB400F frame with CL350 head tube.  It has the correct right side mount for the exhaust hanger, not the rear footpeg/exhaust hangers on both sides as the CB350F frame that is pictured.

[breadwinnercycles]

It appears someone has done a masterful job of grafting a CL350 neck to either a CB350, CB350F or CB400F frame.

You're likely correct.   OP's frame looks to be a CB400F frame with CL350 head tube.  It has the correct right side mount for the exhaust hanger, not the rear footpeg/exhaust hangers on both sides as the CB350F frame that is pictured.

I thought that could have been the case, but there's no place where that grafting appears to have taken place. The head tube is part of the "top spine" stamping and all appears intact. I also observed the same things as jas67: exhaust hanger and foot peg placement as well as the overall shape and form of the frame which looks like every CB400F frame that I can find a picture of. I can't imagine the motivation for doing such a graft!

In the state of WA, they title a bike based on its VIN, not the engine displacement.
I dont know if this will cause title or re-sell issues in your area
VINs should always be verified before purchase 

There was no purchase! Bike was given to me by a friend who had it for nearly 20 years and it was given to him by another friend who had it laying around for 10 years before that. Having been through the reconstructed title process here in Oregon a few years ago I'm not worried about it. I might just make it a track bike anyway.

I'd really just like to know what I have.

Thanks for all the input. If anyone else has any other ideas, please let me know.

Additional question: None of the engine number charts I've seen include engine numbers with the "F" that mine has. They all say  "Engine#: CB400E-1000001." Is it normal to have the "F" in the stamping as well?

[jas67]

I thought that could have been the case, but there's no place where that grafting appears to have taken place. The head tube is part of the "top spine" stamping and all appears intact. I also observed the same things as jas67: exhaust hanger and foot peg placement as well as the overall shape and form of the frame which looks like every CB400F frame that I can find a picture of. I can't imagine the motivation for doing such a graft!

Maybe someone had a titled, but, dead/crashed/etc, CL350, but no title for the CB400F.   So, they moved the vin tag, either ground the old stamped VIN off, or weld-filled, then re-stamped.

I know of one person in my area who has been know to do this (typically BMW airheads).   Because of this, I will not ever buy a motorcycle from him.

[flybox1]

[Scott S]

 Something like that will ALWAYS hurt the value at re-sale time, but it shouldn't hurt your enjoyment of the bike! Especially if it was free. Did it come with any paperwork? Is it currently registered/titled?

[breadwinnercycles]

Something like that will ALWAYS hurt the value at re-sale time, but it shouldn't hurt your enjoyment of the bike! Especially if it was free. Did it come with any paperwork? Is it currently registered/titled?

No paperwork at all. It was abandoned and made a basketcase about 30 years ago. Not even an old plate.
I'm not worried about resale value or re-titling as I've been through the process and it was pretty painless.

[kmb69]

.....
So, they moved the vin tag, either ground the old stamped VIN off, or weld-filled, then re-stamped.
.....

Seriously doubt if it's been re-stamped. The font appears to be genuine Honda and those stamps are essentially unobtainable.

[jas67]

It's a mystery then.

[754]

I think some dealer, must have had the stamps.
Look at the rivets..rusty......not sure but I think they dont usually rust.

[Garage_guy_chris]

Something is definitely weird here! The cb400F didn't come along until 1975 so it being a "1971" is a little problematic. The other thing i noticed is that the paint over the VIN stamping has brush marks in it. my guess is someone took a CL350 and cut the VIN stamping off the neck in a little rectangle and transplanted that along with the VIN plate onto your frame. Why it was done?? who knows?? If it were mine i think id get some paint stripper and strip the area around the stamped VIN and do some investigation. As for options after the fact.

1. Replace frame with a good titled frame and transfer everything over
2. Find a trashed frame with a good title and do the rectangular graft, to the VIN back to your frame
3. Find some way to title it and use it as is

[754]

Put high pipes and 350 badges on it..

[kmb69]

I think some dealer, must have had the stamps.
.....

Never, to my knowledge. Guarded like gold at the factory.

[jas67]

@breadwinnercycles -- what state are you in?

I've got a CB400F parts bike that I need to strip down and box the parts, then sell the frame.
I'm in PA.   I have a NJ title -- in the wrong name of course, so, you'd have to go the Vermont route for a title, but, at least the frame hasn't been hacked, and has a valid CB400F VIN on it, alleviating any VIN issues down the road if you sell the bike.
 

[CycleRanger]

It's a mystery then.

One that we must solve!