Topic: How to know if I need a new chain?

[Gene]

Hey, Delta, i don't even know how you do it, but why do you always quote without sourcename?
That makes quoting inaccurately very easy and hard to verify!

Let's see if I did that right

Yep. There it is.

[robvangulik]

That wasn't my main question 

The question was WHY!

[Gene]

SUBTERFUGE!

[tlbranth]

Awesome, guys. My buddy is used to maintaining a racing fleet, so his comments about riveted master links might not apply to 45 year old runabouts and weekend riders. I'll stick with the clip-on master link since so many of you have good experience with it.

As far as x-ring and o-ring chains, what is that (compared to the standard chain)? I'm more interested in reliability, ease of maintenance, and long term cost reduction (in that order) than I am in saving a penny here and there, but if one item is $20 more than something else that works just as well, I'd prefer the cheap one (again, all other practical considerations being equal).

And thanks for narrowing the conversation down to CB550s (again, mine's a K, but it shouldn't matter I'd guess).

Standard chain maybe $35. X-ring about $100 & up. O-ring seals the pin and the sleeve it runs in. It's pre-lubed and the o-ring keeps the lube in. This is where the wear takes place on a standard chain and causes "stretch". X-ring is an improvement over o-ring in that it has 2 sealing surfaces instead of 1. Standard chain that I used to use required adjustment at least every 2 hundred miles and oiling every 100 miles. Adjustment is equivalent to wear.

[ilikepinkcrayons]

Okay, 520 O-ring chain... are there any modifications required to put that on? Do I need specific 520 sprockets, or does it just fit tighter?

[754]

Yes thinner sprockets,  soje machine them down.
 If you machined them properly for this app, you would take it all off one side, then an O ring chain may clear.

[Deltarider]

Hey, Delta, i don't even know how you do it, but why do you always quote without sourcename?
That makes quoting inaccurately very easy and hard to verify!

Gosh, I feel very ashamed. Thanks to your comment I've discovered the quote switch. I never knew it was there. So there was no 'why', just plain stupidity  Ik heb leren schrijven op een leitje met een griffel. Nah, niet echt natuurlijk, maar het scheelde maar weinig.

[robvangulik]

I doubt you are older than I, as your age isn't in your profile, but my first schoolyears were indeed in a bench with an inkwell learning to write with a 'kroontjespen', and that button is clear enough, specially for someone with several thousands of posts on this forum!
Use it well, it will make your posts a lot clearer and more believable.

[Deltarider]

I remember those inkwells with the sliding lid (patria nijmegen). The very first day in elementary school the little boy next to me saw a little dust floating on the surface of the ink in there. He tried to blow it away... the next moment his face was covered with blue Quink ink. The first day.

[przjohn]

Sorry to go off topic but, you two guys must be just a couple days older than dirt.  I'm 61 years old and ball point pens were here in the states long long before I was born. The only Ink Wells we ever saw were in museums.

[Gene]

Sorry to go off topic but, you two guys must be just a couple days older than dirt.  I'm 61 years old and ball point pens were here in the states long long before I was born. The only Ink Wells we ever saw were in museums.

We still used fountain pans when I was a kid - and I'm 7 years your junior. This was MI of course . . .

[tlbranth]

Sorry to go off topic but, you two guys must be just a couple days older than dirt.  I'm 61 years old and ball point pens were here in the states long long before I was born. The only Ink Wells we ever saw were in museums.

I'm 72 and went to school in England 'til I was 15. We had inkwells and nib pens. Fountain pens were acceptable but ballpoint pens were not. We also learned how to spell, put together a sentence and write legibly. I finished high school in Cupertino, California and got a great education there. But I decided all by myself that The US only THINKS it has everything figured out.

[ilikepinkcrayons]

Sorry to go off topic but, you two guys must be just a couple days older than dirt.  I'm 61 years old and ball point pens were here in the states long long before I was born. The only Ink Wells we ever saw were in museums.

Ha, that's okay. This is actually pretty interesting. I'm 32, went to school in Orange County, California, and did NOT learn how to spell or write legibly (although, despite my best intentions, I did learn how to construct a moderately acceptable sentence).

For the sprockets, are there 520 sprockets that I can buy? I'd rather buy the right deal than spend the time with a work around, but I can machine it if necessary...

[Gene]

Sorry to go off topic but, you two guys must be just a couple days older than dirt.  I'm 61 years old and ball point pens were here in the states long long before I was born. The only Ink Wells we ever saw were in museums.

Ha, that's okay. This is actually pretty interesting. I'm 32, went to school in Orange County, California, and did NOT learn how to spell or write legibly (although, despite my best intentions, I did learn how to construct a moderately acceptable sentence).

For the sprockets, are there 520 sprockets that I can buy? I'd rather buy the right deal than spend the time with a work around, but I can machine it if necessary...

Why not go with the 530? They're good chains and no new sprocket required. Or did I miss that part?

[ilikepinkcrayons]

Good question. I didn't explicitly stated that I'd like to replace my sprockets too. They've probably got 13,000 miles on them with the original chain, and I could also take this opportunity to change the gear ratio for a more favorable RPM at speeds (maybe).

[tlbranth]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

[TwoTired]

Good question. I didn't explicitly stated that I'd like to replace my sprockets too. They've probably got 13,000 miles on them with the original chain, and I could also take this opportunity to change the gear ratio for a more favorable RPM at speeds (maybe).

The top speed on the CB550, is achieved only when the final gear ratio allows the engine to make enough torque to overcome the wind resistance.

The CB550 doesn't have a lot of torque.  And its best HP is only achieved at higher RPM.  Check out the HP and torque curves.  Max torque occurs at around 7500 RPM.  Honda says 38 HP at 8000 RPM and top speed occurs at 8500 RPM, when wind drag and rolling resistance power consumption equal the power produced by the engine. 

In other words, lowering the RPM with a sprocket ratio change is counter productive.  It might make your ears feel better.  But, the engine will just be in a higher working, less efficient mode.
It likes RPM and works best when it has more.  Better to just get used to it and accept the bike for what it is, or get a different bike.

Of course, if you must have a loud exhaust modification, that high RPM noise can cause rider fatigue, and draw more attention from local law enforcement.

17 Front, 37 Rear sprockets.

Cheers,

[Deltarider]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

No necessarily. The last 100.000 kms on my CB500 I changed sprockets every second chain.

[RandomOrbit]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

No necessarily. The last 100.000 kms on my CB500 I changed sprockets every second chain.

Worn sprockets will wear the chain faster, so you probably got fewer miles out of that second chain.

[Deltarider]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

No necessarily. The last 100.000 kms on my CB500 I changed sprockets every second chain.

Worn sprockets will wear the chain faster, so you probably got fewer miles out of that second chain.

Not that I have noticed. What you state, is repeated over and over again but I wonder how many have put it to the test. I did. On my CB500 that is.

[TwoTired]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

No necessarily. The last 100.000 kms on my CB500 I changed sprockets every second chain.

Worn sprockets will wear the chain faster, so you probably got fewer miles out of that second chain.

This is true.   But, the rate depends on actual sprocket wear.

However, the economics are such that even though the chain does wear faster, it works out that its cheaper to wear the chain a little faster, rather than the extra expense and time of replacing all sprockets for each chain.

For me, the front sprocket lasts two or three new chains.  The rear sprocket three or four chains.  The longer you use a worn chain, the more the sprockets wear the teeth farther apart, leading to "hooking".  And quality of sprocket matter.  Aluminum sprockets wear faster than steel, and the "cut profile" of the tooth also matters.  Honda sprockets are worth the money, imo.

The worn sprockets replaced under this regimen, haven't shortened the standard chain life more than 20-30%.  Chain lube one a week during commuter usage, and while chain is hot.  PJ1 black can spray.   If in rain operation, more frequently.

Cheers,

[RandomOrbit]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

No necessarily. The last 100.000 kms on my CB500 I changed sprockets every second chain.

Worn sprockets will wear the chain faster, so you probably got fewer miles out of that second chain.

Not that I have noticed. What you state, is repeated over and over again but I wonder how many have put it to the test. I did. On my CB500 that is.

My experience with bicycle chains has shown it to be true. Put a new bike chain on old worn sprockets, and it will wear out beyond the service limit in a very short time. Most folks don't notice because they don't know how to measure a chain for wear. Obviously motorcycle chains are way heavier duty, but they also take way higher stress. The principal is exactly the same.

I'm not sure what the mileage difference is on a mildly worn sprocket. Maybe it's a few hundred and not a few thousand, in which case you may not notice the difference or care, but there is a difference. Obviously your practice of switching every other works for you, maybe the math even works out, but sprockets are cheap compared to a good chain, so I'd prefer to replace them all at once if it means riding more and adjusting and replacing chains less frequently.

[tlbranth]

If your chain is worn, you should replace it and the sprockets together

No necessarily. The last 100.000 kms on my CB500 I changed sprockets every second chain.

SHOULD