Topic: is vinegar good for parts soaking?

[juntjoo]

Even as a secondary soak after using regular carb soak solution? seems very 'clean' to me and I'd rather have that rub off on my hands.

I haven't been able to use the search bar recently btw

[MoMo]

I use cleaning vinegar, works well and seems to be relatively safe...Larry

[TwoTired]

Vinegar is acidic and will attack and dissolve metals at a pace relative to the temperature, strength, and quantity of the acid.

I don't think that is a good idea, anymore than picking a solution that is basic, which does the same thing;  Convert metal to a difference substance.

Carb cleaners are neither acidic or basic. But, they can be absorbed by the skin into the blood stream.

You can grow more skin in response to a mild acid or base attack.  Carbs can't grow more metal, though.

Cheers,

[JoeCooley]

It's good for removing rust from gas tanks. Not sure if I'd soak carbs in it.

[754]

 Vinegar dissolves copper.  If you have steel parts in vinegar with copper, the steel starts to get copper plate on it.

[markreimer]

Left a massively rusted cb350f tank full of white vinegar. Two weeks later it was almost new inside. Coated it afterward. Big fan!


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[juntjoo]

thanks for all the info!

[TwoTired]

It's good for removing rust from gas tanks. Not sure if I'd soak carbs in it.

It does attack rust.  Once the rust is gone it starts converting parent metal.  If the metal is thin, you can expect pin holes.  The saving grace is that weak acid solutions get weaker as the rust and metal is converted and slow their action.

For tanks, I prefer the electrolysis method.  Removes rust without attacking the parent metal.

Cheers,

[brewsky]

Here's what happens when you leave vinegar in a tank too long!

[Yamahawk]

Left a massively rusted cb350f tank full of white vinegar. Two weeks later it was almost new inside. Coated it afterward. Big fan!


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A better alternative to white vinegar, which does dissolve rust, and metal, is a product called Prep -n- Etch, sold in stores like Home Depot. It is used to etch concrete for surface sealing, and to remove rust stains from concrete...that being said, it does an excellent job of removing rust from gas tanks, or off tools, parts, etc. and doesn't harm paint or the parent metal. After 24hrs in a tank, it is usually rust free, and the metal now has a gray look, like it was parkerized. You should wash it out well afterwards, and save the solution for future use, as you can use it over and over again, until it is too weak to work with sludge from all the rust. I fill the tanks with a couple gallons, top up with water, and let it sit. It works very well.Dry with a hair dryer in the filler opening, to make sure the water is evaporated.  Afterwards, I seal with POR15 tank sealer.
Charlie

[754]

Lots of cleaners will ruin stuff if it's in too long.. use common sense..

[markreimer]

Been wanting to try the electric method for a while, very cool!


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[PeWe]

I let my carbs swim in 12.5% vinegar for 1-2 hours after the initial clean with carb cleaner.
Carbs had some oxidation that the vinegar removed. Bath in water after the vinegar and final blowjob with compressed air.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1967262.html#msg1967262

I derusted a tank earlier with  same type of vinegar for 48 hours. It might have been OK  for 1 day more, but I did not want to risk the tank.

[TwoTired]

A better alternative to white vinegar, which does dissolve rust, and metal, is a product called Prep -n- Etch, sold in stores like Home Depot. It is used to etch concrete for surface sealing, and to remove rust stains from concrete...that being said, it does an excellent job of removing rust from gas tanks, or off tools, parts, etc. and doesn't harm paint or the parent metal.

Prep N Etch is Phosphoric acid.  By far preferred over other acids for tank derusting.  The coating left behind is iron phosphate.  The iron in the new surface comes from the tank parent metal.  So, it does thin the parent metal somewhat.  The good thing is that the iron phosphate coating blocks acid access to the metal substrate.  Which means it is self limiting when attacking the steel, and why the acid can be reused a few times. (It's activity gets slower with re-use.)
It can't form the blocking film over actual rust.  So, rust gone and the remaining steel surface is converted to iron phosphate.

The iron phosphate coating is porous, however.  So, either oil or a top coat of some kind is needed to prevent further rusting.  I expect if you keep the gasoline fresh and sloshing, as in routine use, you wouldn't need to top coat it.

Cheers,

[Yamahawk]

Or if it is a 2 stroke and use premix... lol. I like to add an ounce of two stroke Klotz to my Concours tank, it gives the top end a bit of extra lube and oils the tank at the same time!
Charlie

[TwoTired]

I like to add an ounce of two stroke Klotz to my Concours tank, it gives the top end a bit of extra lube and oils the tank at the same time!

I've heard this "top end lube" before.  But, I could never understand how it could work.  It all goes through the combustion chamber.  Why wouldn't it just leave burnt oil deposits in the pathway? 

Sort of see an opportunity for only the intake valve stem.  But really, how would you quantify that benefit with an actual scientific test?

 

Cheers,

[Don R]

 If a little 2 stroke oil protects my tank and 4-4 exhaust I'll live with the rest. I use amzoil 2 stroke synthetic, just an oz in a tank. And just on the bikes that sit a lot. Someone said you rarely see a rusted out 2 stroke exhaust, while that may or may not be true I'll err on the side of oily.

 I assume a little vinegar used with discretion would be a good flush before a final rinse.

[RAFster122s]

Yes, I agree with you TwoTired regarding the two-stroke oil. I like to use some seafoam in my fuel tank when filling up.  It tends to help the carburators and it will stabilize gas in the tank.

I agree with many if not most all of your posts Lloyd.  You are very smart I think and one of the top experts on the cb500/550.  One of the brain trusts of the forum....

David

[Yamahawk]

My Concours tank is 7 gallons, that is 896 oz of gas vs 1 oz of two stroke oil... not a lot of burnt deposits from that ratio. I think it helps the valve guides on the intake side, and it gives a little rust protection also for the metal tank. Now, I am a Seafoam fan also, and it is one of my favorite things to add to my gas tanks. It does help preserve the gas, as Stable does also. The formula for Seafoam has been around for at least 60 years, and the main ingredient is... penetrating oil. So, its 2 stroke oil, or... penetrating oil... if your rings are sticky, the Seafoam will help there also, removing deposits from them too. Either way you go, don't ever use more than is recommended from the manufacturer, as in Seafoam's 1 oz per gallon, or 1.5 oz per quart of oil in your crankcase. I agree with David too, Lloyd, you have a wealth of knowledge and a wry sense of humor
Charlie

[TwoTired]

Thanks for the compliments, guys.

I'm not a big fan of miracle additives.   Neither seem the manufacturer's of vehicles in general either.  ever see a manufacturer's shop manual that did?
Anyway, I have and have used seafoam, and frankly did not notice a benefit.  Nothing broke or went bad with its use, though.  But, I can't isolate something that did not break as Seafoam causal.  It's very hard to prove a negative.
But, my comparison is with bikes that had it vs. the same model bike that did not.  They both just kept working.  Not definitive, I know.  But, there it is.

For top end lube, it would seem the exhaust valve with all the heat would be most helpful to lube the stems.  ...But, it's burnt when any fuel tank remnants get to it, right?

Something in the back of my mind recalls a note that anti-rust additives were blended into the gasoline at some time.  Who knows what their current blend formula is today.  Of course, they can change it anytime they want.  No guarantees from any supplier to maintain their formula's consistency.

I agree a small amount of oil in the gas shouldn't hurt anything.  Aren't modern 2 stroke oils, particularly the synthetics, supposed to burn cleanly, even smokeless?    They do for my RC planes, anyway.

Cheers,

[PeWe]

My CB750 K6 will get Red line fuel additive next spring. It must have carbonized piston tops/chambers due to very rich needles it had last year, 2 steps too rich, AF ratio 11-12/1.
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/SI-1_PROD_INFO.pdf

[Yamahawk]

My CB750 K6 will get Red line fuel additive next spring. It must have carbonized piston tops/chambers due to very rich needles it had last year, 2 steps too rich, AF ratio 11-12/1.
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/SI-1_PROD_INFO.pdf

Oh man! Redline... just the word gets my blood up, and my heart pounding! Can't wait to Redline my SOHC this spring... perhaps with some Redline added for good measure!
Charlie