Author Topic: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)  (Read 1338 times)

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Offline OldZaskar

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Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« on: March 11, 2019, 07:51:06 am »
The wheels were pretty crusty on my '73 CB500 - rims were nicked (like someone used a crowbar and a running start to mount the tires), faded, scratched... hubs were corroded, yellowed... spokes were chalky, rusty... So, I degreased and degreased... polished (did nothing) Scotch-Brite'd (did nothing)... They were beyond saving - cosmetically. I have another set of O.E. hubs - these will be used to build a new set of wheels - new spokes and rims.

Until I can build the new wheels, the old ones are getting some paint.

This is after a lot of cleaning:


This is after a whole lot of prep - sanding, sanding and sanding... then 3 light coats of metal etching primer and 4 coats of satin black - perfect conditions, e.g. 72 degrees, low humidity - 6-8 minutes between coats of primer; waited 30 minutes for the first coat of the black - then 8-10 min. between coats... light/moderate coats:




Next day - One coat of clear... same brand (Rustoleum) all three are enamel. Conditions still ideal:




The clear essentially acted as a paint stripper - everywhere it touched the base/black, it wrinkled and wiped off. I spent some time on the phone this morning with a tech at Rustoleum. My mistake was not letting those 4 coats of satin black dry... cure... harden - before applying the clear. The tech recommended 48 hours - not the 24-28 I waited. That recommended drying time is on the satin black (in .0005 font) but it is NOT on the clear.

I re-sanded the wheel - about half of the paint was ruined. Some of the black is good. Some was taken down to the primer and some to bare metal.

Next warning: Metal-etching primer can't be used over paint. It is ONLY for bare metal. I know, that's sort of obvious. But, having a wheel with some paint, some bare metal did beg the question - what now? There is a "universal bonding" primer that can be used over paint and metal. That's next.

'73 CB500 Four

Offline calj737

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 09:48:50 am »
Bead blast hubs. Scotchbrite them afterwards. Leave them be.
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Offline OldZaskar

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2019, 10:02:02 am »
That's the plan with the other hubs - then new spokes and rims.

With the current wheels, the paint is a short-term fix. Once the new wheels are built, the current wheels will be disassembled the hubs media-blasted, etc.

This post is intended to be less about what to do with wheels and more what to do (or not do) with paint... learning from my mistake. ;-)
'73 CB500 Four

Offline DarkLinkX5

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2019, 05:00:01 am »
as expected.
I've had some bad experiences (and really good) with rustoleum clear coats. i either got cracks, soft cure (scratches with fingernail like pine wood)
I had a hard time repainting my tank with rustoleum spray cans... so much sanding just to get a good finish and its still has orange peel...
sprayed part of my frame with no problem so i have no idea whats causing the issues on the other parts.

but with that i'm getting a proper spray gun and paint/clear soon. which means new air compressor as 3Gal isn't enough.
1977 Honda CB550k

Offline Kelly E

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2019, 12:07:10 pm »
I use Seymour MRO paint and it will spray out really well.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 12:11:49 pm by Kelly E »
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB550 K0
1975 Honda CB400F Super Sport
1979 Honda CB750F Super Sport
1980 Suzuki GS1100E
1982 Honda CB900F Super Sport
1984 Honda VF700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline jakec

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 12:34:39 pm »
that tank looks amazing!
1975 CB400 F Stock
1973 CB750 Chop
1970 CL350 K2 Stock

Offline RAF122S

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 12:50:19 pm »
What kind of cloth,rags, or paper towels are you using with the acetone wipe down before painting? Contamination will cause initial coats to have anything from fisheye to crazing to other paint or primer issues. When I did not know better I wiped down a sanded panel I was going to paint with blue show towels (paper) with my paint prep wash and the paint crazed because I had contaminated the surface with the chemicals the shop towels used that made them good at cleaning the grease and oil off your hands and tools.

Sorry you ended up bitten by the lack of cure time. Hard lesson to experience.  Hope reading the entire label carefully in future can prevent this from ever biting you again.

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Kelly E

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2019, 07:02:00 pm »
Thanks Jake, as soon as the badges have cured I can clear coat them and be done. I still need to do the last coat of black on the tank and side covers. I need to find out if I can get clear in the Seymour brand.
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB550 K0
1975 Honda CB400F Super Sport
1979 Honda CB750F Super Sport
1980 Suzuki GS1100E
1982 Honda CB900F Super Sport
1984 Honda VF700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline DarkLinkX5

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2019, 04:45:59 am »
What kind of cloth,rags, or paper towels are you using with the acetone wipe down before painting? Contamination will cause initial coats to have anything from fisheye to crazing to other paint or primer issues. When I did not know better I wiped down a sanded panel I was going to paint with blue show towels (paper) with my paint prep wash and the paint crazed because I had contaminated the surface with the chemicals the shop towels used that made them good at cleaning the grease and oil off your hands and tools.

Sorry you ended up bitten by the lack of cure time. Hard lesson to experience.  Hope reading the entire label carefully in future can prevent this from ever biting you again.

David

that may be my issue thanks. I didn't think about that. I use blue shop towels from the dollar store and wipe down the sanded paint surface with isopropyl on my tank.
i didn't do that on the frame where i spray painted so that must be the issue. for that i just hosed it and let it air dry, maybe used a kitchen towel to speed it up.
1977 Honda CB550k

Offline jakec

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2019, 09:34:11 am »
Kelly what bike is that for? I have a friend who wants to do a black tank for his 400. I also have a spare 400 tank I wanted to do parakeet yellow.
1975 CB400 F Stock
1973 CB750 Chop
1970 CL350 K2 Stock

Offline Kelly E

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2019, 10:01:27 am »
Kelly what bike is that for? I have a friend who wants to do a black tank for his 400. I also have a spare 400 tank I wanted to do parakeet yellow.

The tank is for my 74' CB550. The Seymour paint where I buy it mostly comes in tractor colors like Caterpillar yellow, New Holland blue, International red, JD green as well as black and white but no silver. Definitely the best rattle can paint that I have ever used.
Never Give Up - Never Surrender

The Rust Bros. Garage Collection
1974 Honda CB550 K0
1975 Honda CB400F Super Sport
1979 Honda CB750F Super Sport
1980 Suzuki GS1100E
1982 Honda CB900F Super Sport
1984 Honda VF700S Sabre
1984 Honda VF1000F Interceptor
1990 Moto Guzzi 1000 Le Mans
1994 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000A9
2005 Harley Davidson Fat Boy

Offline Ichiban 4

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2019, 06:35:33 am »
The wheels were pretty crusty on my '73 CB500 - rims were nicked (like someone used a crowbar and a running start to mount the tires), faded, scratched... hubs were corroded, yellowed... spokes were chalky, rusty... So, I degreased and degreased... polished (did nothing) Scotch-Brite'd (did nothing)... They were beyond saving - cosmetically. I have another set of O.E. hubs - these will be used to build a new set of wheels - new spokes and rims.

Until I can build the new wheels, the old ones are getting some paint.

This is after a lot of cleaning:


This is after a whole lot of prep - sanding, sanding and sanding... then 3 light coats of metal etching primer and 4 coats of satin black - perfect conditions, e.g. 72 degrees, low humidity - 6-8 minutes between coats of primer; waited 30 minutes for the first coat of the black - then 8-10 min. between coats... light/moderate coats:




Next day - One coat of clear... same brand (Rustoleum) all three are enamel. Conditions still ideal:




The clear essentially acted as a paint stripper - everywhere it touched the base/black, it wrinkled and wiped off. I spent some time on the phone this morning with a tech at Rustoleum. My mistake was not letting those 4 coats of satin black dry... cure... harden - before applying the clear. The tech recommended 48 hours - not the 24-28 I waited. That recommended drying time is on the satin black (in .0005 font) but it is NOT on the clear.

I re-sanded the wheel - about half of the paint was ruined. Some of the black is good. Some was taken down to the primer and some to bare metal.

Next warning: Metal-etching primer can't be used over paint. It is ONLY for bare metal. I know, that's sort of obvious. But, having a wheel with some paint, some bare metal did beg the question - what now? There is a "universal bonding" primer that can be used over paint and metal. That's next.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
From my experience..that cracking and crazing looks like a chemical mismatch between the base coat(s)..and the clear coat..as in lacquer/acetone based on top of synthetic/enamel based.  Did you check the ingredients of the respective products? Think that factory Honda engine paint (including clear coat) is always synthetic.enamel based.  Maybe some others here can help clarify? I'm not a big fan of Rustoleum products BTW.
Shame you had to go through all of that..and wound-up with those results.  You could re-sand and start over..and make sure that the base coats and clear coats are compatible. Also doesn't seem unreasonable to just ask a regular auto body paint shop..what they recommend. Don't know much about chemical effects of "metal etching primer".

Good luck!  Al/Ichi

I'm also an "old timer"..remember some of these things from the 60's and 70's.  So..maybe I missing something here?
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline RAF122S

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Re: Rattle Can Clear Coat How To (and Warning)
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2019, 08:14:24 am »
Odds are it was the lack of curing of the black causing the issues as it is common to see it happen.  The paint below was still outgassing and curing.

I just mentioned my experience to point out sometimes we can get bit by things that may be easy to see if we think things through but they do not occur tons as a likely cause or problem causing item at the time.

David
David- back in the desert SW!