Topic: Need help identifying a couple bicycles I bought

[pmanning]

Both frames appear to be older which increases the possibility that none of the components on them came with the frame when new.  Based on the diameter of the tubing both appear to be steel frames.  The lug work on the first frame pictured is a bit more elaborate than the second.  It is typical of frames constructed from Reynolds 531 tubing which was the standard for lightweight bicycles before first aluminum frames and more recently carbon fiber frames were developed.  Both British built Raleighs and French Peugots offered bikes with 531 tubing.  These frames were identified with a decal on the upper part of the seat tube immediately beneath the top tube.  It looks like both frames have been repainted but perhaps there is evidence of a decal there if it is that type frame.

[MoMo]

Both frames appear to be older which increases the possibility that none of the components on them came with the frame when new.  Based on the diameter of the tubing both appear to be steel frames.  The lug work on the first frame pictured is a bit more elaborate than the second.  It is typical of frames constructed from Reynolds 531 tubing which was the standard for lightweight bicycles before first aluminum frames and more recently carbon fiber frames were developed.  Both British built Raleighs and French Peugots offered bikes with 531 tubing.  These frames were identified with a decal on the upper part of the seat tube immediately beneath the top tube.  It looks like both frames have been repainted but perhaps there is evidence of a decal there if it is that type frame.

Thanks for looking.  Lug work has been mentioned often,  what does that mean?   Thanks again...Larry

[Terry in Australia]

The lugs are the brazed on frame joints where the tubes intersect LBB, at the steering head, crank housing etc. The fancier bikes had fancier lugs.

[Mark1976]

BB = bottom bracket, where the serial # located.
Dropouts = small metal lugs brazed to the frame that the wheels clamp onto. Your rear one is horizontal which typically is used on track frames. It has no hanger for a rear derailleur. Bikes built pre 1990's were all over the place in regards to build spec's.  So many different parts suppliers, it really was up to the bike dealer what component group would end up on many of the models. Its how they made there profit, if you had a bike that was spec'ed with a full Campagnolo or Modolo or Suntour component group, you had a highend bike. Shimano was just becoming available in the 70's and made its name when indexed shifting came along in the 80's. Todays, for the most part, component groups are Campy, Shimano or Sram.

[MoMo]

BB = bottom bracket, where the serial # located.
Dropouts = small metal lugs brazed to the frame that the wheels clamp onto. Your rear one is horizontal which typically is used on track frames. It has no hanger for a rear derailleur. Bikes built pre 1990's were all over the place in regards to build spec's.  So many different parts suppliers, it really was up to the bike dealer what component group would end up on many of the models. Its how they made there profit, if you had a bike that was spec'ed with a full Campagnolo or Modolo or Suntour component group, you had a highend bike. Shimano was just becoming available in the 70's and made its name when indexed shifting came along in the 80's. Todays, for the most part, component groups are Campy, Shimano or Sram.

Thank you!!!        I went out to the shed and pulled out the bike without shifters.  I took a close look at the frame, Ritchey Comp Logic is clearly stamped into the head.  I was having trouble with the photos I sent to Brendan at Ritchey so maybe he did not get that.   Anyhow, I took close ups of the frame and will resend, plus  I'll post some here later tonight as I am at work now.  Larry

[Mark1976]

Is it stamped into the headtube or the headset bearing caps. Those type of headtubes are known as A heads, the race and cone set thread in at the bottom and top of the head tube. Richety sold headsets i believe. That type of headset hasn't been used for a while (15yrs). They were around for many years before that. You may still see them on inexpensive dept store bikes.

[MoMo]

Is it stamped into the headtube or the headset bearing caps. Those type of headtubes are known as A heads, the race and cone set thread in at the bottom and top of the head tube. Richety sold headsets i believe. That type of headset hasn't been used for a while (15yrs). They were around for many years before that. You may still see them on inexpensive dept store bikes.

It looks like head to me but maybe it threads into the frame like you pointed out. Are these photos clear enough to show?  thanks for your time

IMG_1567 by Lawrence Moulder, on Flickr
IMG_1566 by Lawrence Moulder, on Flickr

[Mark1976]

They're just threaded in. If you drop the fork they'll turn out.

[MoMo]

They're just threaded in. If you drop the fork they'll turn out.

Thank you,  kind of what I thought after I read your reply.  So, both are frames of unknown origin with higher end components?  Kind of odd that the serial numbers are so close and the stamped markings are quite similar.  At least I'm getting an education.  I put the Presta adapters on and could not get air into the tires, took me a bit to figure out that the little ball end on the Presta stem has to be turned up but I was able to inflate the tires  on the geared bike (one without gears has a bad tube) and ride up and down the street.  BTW, both Mavic rims are 25",  seems the PO  used 27" tubes though.  Might go for a little ride later today on the geared bike....Cheers

[MoMo]

FWIW here is a list of components on SN 41 (bike without gearing).  It weighs about 11 pounds without wheels when rested on a bathroom scale.

Sakal Custom Road Champion bars
Hutchinson tires
Dura-Ace 170-R3 crank
Avocet seat
Mavic 25 inch wheels
Normandy stamped on the hub
Kyokuto Pro pedals
Huret Luxe wheel locks
Velox bar ends stamped made in France
Velox rim bands  fond de jante


Another odd thing, the wheels measure 25" outer edge to outer edge but the tubes were 27 x 1.   Sure seems like it would be a French bicycle.....Larry

[jgger]

Larry, a more accurate way to weigh the frame is to weigh yourself holding it then again without the bike, do the math........tada! Bathroom scales don't do very good with light items.

[MoMo]

Larry, a more accurate way to weigh the frame is to weigh yourself holding it then again without the bike, do the math........tada! Bathroom scales don't do very good with light items.

Good idea,   problem though.................................I have to be able to do math

[MoMo]

I have plans to go to the local bike shop tomorrow(actually 20 miles away).  Need a tube and hopefully someone might be able to help with and ID....Larry

[jgger]

Well you have 10 fingers and you said around 11..............so I won't ask what you are going to use for the "extra" digit.😳

[MoMo]

Well you have 10 fingers and you said around 11..............so I won't ask what you are going to use for the "extra" digit.😳

that thing shriveled up years ago

[MoMo]

Back from the bicycle shop ( Bike Line ).   No one is positive but somewhat certain that they are Peugeots.  At least the counter guy's research (he used the parts mounted to the track frame) led him to come to that conclusion.   Larry

[MoMo]

He also mentioned Bianchi as a possibility, since most all parts are French though he thought Peugeot. 

[Terry in Australia]

When I was in Europe in the 70's, you could buy all the components you've listed above quite cheaply in a department store's sports section Larry.

I bought fancy French and Italian gearsets, cranks, brakes, seats, handlebars etc, and even sent 2 sets of wheels back to Oz, then built a couple of really nice bikes using frames I bought from a friend of my dad.

I sold one for good money after awhile because fhe components were very rare in Australia, and gave the other one to my cousin when I joined the Army. The parts were really cheap in France, I wish I'd bought more.

[MoMo]

I also got a lesson on bicycle tire sizes,  never knew the size came from measurement at the outer edge of tire.  Never too old to learn, even at 72.   I always ass u med rims were measured like motorsickles...Larry

[Don R]

 I put 1 1/4" tires on my Fuji to replace the 1 1/8" it came with, there was a bigger difference than I'd have guessed. I had to move the rear reflector bracket for brake bracket clearance.  It appears to be a good trade off, it rides a little better if not as fast.  I like to ride to a local bridge, it takes a lot of the 21 speeds to get up it but if the cars are out of the way I can go like stink for a quarter mile or so coming back down.