Topic: 1974 Rickman Honda

[RAFster122s]

Doug..... I have a full set of very professionally made fibreglass molds for all the Rickman Components. At one point I will get someone to pull me a new set (I’m NOT s fibreglass guy). You should check out AirtechStreamling.com and look under their SOHC Honda CB750 CR Section. They make awesome stuff.

I know a guy who lives here in Tucson who did Composite part production for Grumman and he could pull you as many sets as you needed from the molds. He does really nice work. He builds a lot of composite RC airplanes.

You aren't looking for carbon fiber parts, right? Just carbon fiber tow as needed to improve rigidity of fairing or any other areas that might see stress. Tow is inexpensive, carbon or carbon/kevlar cloth/fabric isn't cheap. I do a little composite work from time to time but don't wish to risk it as I am rusty and wouldn't want to turn out lessor quality needed/expected from your molds.
David

[Doug K]

Dear BenelliSEI  and RAF122S: 
Thanks so much for your willingness to produce a good working copy of the fairing I need to get my CR back to standard.  The bikini fairing on it now looks pretty ok (I think it's an old Bub piece).  If you're not able to get to it in the next year or so, perhaps I can arrange for someone in your area to pull me a copy.  Again, thanks for your assistance.

Doug K

[BenelliSEI]

Doug..... I live just outside Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Distance may be an issue, and getting “one offs”built is not inexpensive. Did you checkout Airtech?

[BenelliSEI]

Raff..... forgot to respond. Not sure f frames ever fell apart, but those with experience suggest it is very easy to damage the welds if care isn’t taken when stripping the original bright nickel. I’ve found a shop that recently did a Rickman Scrambler and it turned out fabulously well. When I spoke to the owner, he seemed every aware of the risks and supervised the other frame..... I’ll be meeting them well before I hand over my Rickman!

[grcamna2]

Yes. I have a friend who’s Dad worked for British Oxygen for years. He took welding courses from them and became a real expert. The cart is so I can roll it to his shop for the correct repairs!

Benelli,
Will your friend tig or braze it ?

Filet braze it ? What type of process will you use to strip the frame before having it finish coated,have you decided on what type of coating(nickel plating as the factory had done)will you use when complete ?

Benelli,it looks like you've stripped some of the nickel plating from it already ?

[BenelliSEI]

No, not me. It had lots of bits removed and added, but the frame is straight and absolutely undamaged. Any fading is just wear and tear. I did get a small bucket that contained about 75# of the tabs removed. Going to try and either reuse them, or replicate, as we restore.

[grcamna2]

No, not me. It had lots of bits removed and added, but the frame is straight and absolutely undamaged. Any fading is just wear and tear. I did get a small bucket that contained about 75# of the tabs removed. Going to try and either reuse them, or replicate, as we restore.

Have you brazed any of them back on ?

[scottly]

Copy/pasted from the Satanic Mechanic site:

"The combination of a nickel plated brazed frame was very common among custom frame makers, Seeley, Rau, Egli (except for very late frames, which were welded) and may others made their frames in the very same way. Which is giving many people a hard time now restoring the frames: Nickel plating as opposed to chrome has a warmer shine but the surface is by far not as hard as chrome so that many of the frames that have survived need re-plating. This means to remove the old plating first but this is where the trouble begins: The old plating is usually removed electrolytically in sulphuric acid but that also dissolves the bronce used for brazing so that you will end up with a assortment of loose tubes! A better way is to remove the nickel (and the underlying copper) plating electrolyrically in an cyanidic bath which leaves the frame intact but is so aggressive that the once polished tube surface needs to be polished again. Thanks to the size and structure of a motorcycle frame this is a mostly manual, a tedious and time consuming process."
Reynolds 531 is no longer made, and has been replaced by 631, which can be welded.

[grcamna2]

Copy/pasted from the Satanic Mechanic site:

"The combination of a nickel plated brazed frame was very common among custom frame makers, Seeley, Rau, Egli (except for very late frames, which were welded) and may others made their frames in the very same way. Which is giving many people a hard time now restoring the frames: Nickel plating as opposed to chrome has a warmer shine but the surface is by far not as hard as chrome so that many of the frames that have survived need re-plating. This means to remove the old plating first but this is where the trouble begins: The old plating is usually removed electrolytically in sulphuric acid but that also dissolves the bronce used for brazing so that you will end up with a assortment of loose tubes! A better way is to remove the nickel (and the underlying copper) plating electrolyrically in an cyanidic bath which leaves the frame intact but is so aggressive that the once polished tube surface needs to be polished again. Thanks to the size and structure of a motorcycle frame this is a mostly manual, a tedious and time consuming process."
Reynolds 531 is no longer made, and has been replaced by 631, which can be welded.

scottly,I was just reading some of that today,and it seems to me that some kind of dipping process would be recommended:a good piece of information you posted.I would imagine there are certain individuals that know just how long and what mix of cyanidic solution would be best so the frame could be brought back to it's original glory. 

[smcgill]

  Scottly,  I had my Rickman headlight/ fairing mount & engine mount plates renickeled recently. The headlight mount brazing is as before, no apparent degradation.The plater also has plated chrome over the nickel, which I had him remove. I stood and watched. He reversed the polarity and all the chrome was back off in 3 minutes or so. I'm fairly sure the process is similar for stripping the nickel then copper. I think the copper strip could destroy the brazing if left too long, time is the factor. My frame has been redone with the brazing intact, just heavy copper/buffing.
  I built hand brazed bicycle frames, I've used 531, Columbus, True Temper, and KVA stainless [that would make a gorgeous motorcycle frame!]. I remember reading about "crevice corrosion" issues with certain brazing alloys. I used low temperature silver alloys, thin for lugs, thicker for fillets. The joints were stronger than the tubes!
  Here is a replated Rickman joint;

[BenelliSEI]

  Mine was replated, during that process, the detail of brazing [stack of dimes look] was polished down, so to an experienced eye it's not original looking.[ & no center stand].
  I would even consider chrome .

Chrome is usually done over nickle, and the polishing is the same. When the nickle plating on my Seeley frame gets too far gone, I'll paint it, without subjecting it to sandblasting or high heat.

This last comment: “I’ll paint it” might be the best advice!

[754]

As far as I know, chrome can be chemically stripped easily,  but not nickel. ..
 And yes any buffing process,  especially  if doing it fast or cheap , usually changes the look of welds or brazing..
 Re plating is harder than plating the first time..

[BenelliSEI]

754..... I’ve mentioned this before. I’ve seen some beautiful, shiny “chrome” powder coating that looks just like the good parts of my bright nickel plated frame. With an added clear coat, to protect from fading, it may be the best solution.....?

 I still have lots of time to decide. I also found a plating shop in London, Ontario (3 hour drive away) that seems to really understand my concerns. When I finish the repairs, I’ll probably take it down there and see how the discussion goes. Big decision. 

[BenelliSEI]

Rickman used their own 41mm Forks. Made the tool to take mine apart today. A looong screwdriver, with a 35mm wide blade (keeps it centred in the bottom of the tube) X 3mm thickness. Just enough to “tap firmly” into the slot..... 4 seals and 2 dust caps on order. Going to work these fork legs to a mirror finish before assembly.

[754]

Are you talking about Platingmaster... I used them.. very good quality...

[BenelliSEI]

754..... Their card is in the shop, but I think that’s the place!

[754]

It might be a black card with white letters.. last stuff I got chromed was probably by them back in  winter of 82/83..

[BenelliSEI]

.....that’s the card!

[BenelliSEI]

After too much turkey, spent an hour in the shop today. Ontario is back into total lockdown for the next three weeks, so I really shouldn’t visit my friend’s shop. Started making mounting tabs. Two for the airbox are done and started on the tool try, then got distracted.

I’ve made up an instrument bracket for the tach and speedo, that has tiny led lights for oil pressure, neutral, hi-beam, and turn signals. They are nice and bright (see pictures, page 10). But, I just picked up a brand new, NOS set of K1 Tach and Speedo. They have the lights built right in! Perhaps I can make a thicker bracket (so I can tap in all the bands for mounting the early style gauges)?

Neither solution is exactly how the Rickman came in 1974. The fairing has a space under the windscreen designed to have the original Honda bar clamp/ idiot light cluster bolted in. The problem with that design is it makes fairing removal a pain. Relocating the lights (and adding a quick disconnect plug to the turnsignals), makes pulling the fairing a 60 second job.

[BenelliSEI]

Spent the past few day making brackets for road going stuff going back on the ex racer Rickman. So far completed, turn signal tabs, battery box and tool box tabs, ignition key switch bracket, horn bracket. I’ll take some photos later.

Unfortunately a new (starting this evening) 28 day Covid Lockdown, will prevent me from getting the final welding done at a friend’s shop (he’s the expert oxy/acetylene welder). Another delay, but i can swing over to rebuilding the front forks and some polishing.

[BenelliSEI]

Tabs for air filter box, tool box, batt. box, rear turn signals, key switch and horn done.

[Doug K]

An update on the scant progress on my '74 Rickman:
Upon a tip from this site, I purchased what I hope is an original early design fairing from eBay Austria.  The seller could find no way tossup it to the US, and so we had it sent to a Listerine Law in Paris.  Her efforts to find a reasonable fare have been fruitless as well.  In the meantime, what appears to be a NOS fairing from the EBay dealer "cyclesavant" . He merely needs to ship it to the east coast from Oregon. He says the OEM parts are sort of eggshell thin.

And that brings us to the main fairing mount.  Cyclesavant has brackets available, but form the photos I've seen on this thread, it is not an exact match.  I will be very grateful if someone could post some pictures of an original mount.  Were they plated or painted?  If anyone has an extra original fairing mount that they are willing to sell . . .? I'll send pictures when the pole barn warms up a bit.

[BenelliSEI]

Doug..... coincidentally the original owner of my Rickman found two original side fairing mounts. I think they are both for one side. When I pick them up, I will post photos. They look like a piece of 1/2” tubing, bent in a “J”. One end has a single tab welded on to slip under an engine through bolt, the other end has a piece of flat stock welded on. The ends are rounded with holes at each end. Two screws go through the fairing (with rubber collars) and nuts on the plate..... I think they are bright plated, like the frame.

[Doug K]

BenelliSei:  When you get the mounts, I would love to see a picture, and of the main front fairing/headlight mount.  Is your headlight mount nickel plated as well?

[BenelliSEI]

BenelliSei:  When you get the mounts, I would love to see a picture, and of the main front fairing/headlight mount.  Is your headlight mount nickel plated as well?

Doug..... check out smcgill’s Post on page 11 of this thread. Great photo of his headlight bracket. Mine was “modified” to carry an oil cooler on the race bike. They were originally bright nickel plated.