Author Topic: Estimating the squish in the rebuild of the engine.  (Read 678 times)

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Offline _mark

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Estimating the squish in the rebuild of the engine.
« on: September 29, 2020, 04:56:12 AM »
HI guys.

My head engine has an height between its planes of 72,2 mm. This should mean that has never been machined or, if yes, only slight.
I read from this forum that the gaskets of the past were 0.8 mm and today are much higher (in my case a new one is about 1.4 mm).
the seat of the o'ring of the cylinder block is about 0.85 mm; such component I don't know if was already machined or not.
I don't even know the octane number of the gasoline of the  early '70s and for which octane number were the CB engines realized.

My head engine has to go to rebuild the valves' seats and I 'don't know if to machine the planes of head and cylinder block.

Is there a thumb rule to do a good choice ? I'm not interested in any pushing to the limits or outstanding performance, I want a smooth solution, but I don't want to lose HPs that can be easily achieved.

Thanks an Regards.

Offline 69cb750

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Re: Estimating the squish in the rebuild of the engine.
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 01:21:32 PM »
Only machine head if needed.
O rings should be thick as head gasket or smidge more.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Estimating the squish in the rebuild of the engine.
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 06:58:19 PM »
First question:
Which year/model is this engine? The amount of machining for improved performance will vary a little, based on the model/year. The 72.2mm height suggests it is a K4/5 engine: those often have taller cylinders than the pre-1974 versions, which Honda did to reduce the octane requirement of those engines during the gas shortage of the later 1970s era. At that time, premium was almost impossible to find, and American Honda told this to Honda in 1973. The result was a drop in compression in the K4, very noticeable at the time, to allow them to run on Regular grade fuels. The cam duration was also shortened slightly, to improve the compression numbers and to preserve the same carbs in use: this, too, worked well. The most notable change became the top speed, which dropped on average to about 105 MPH (down from a more usual 120-ish top end), but they still toured well.

To remove this and improve the overall performance again, there are some tests you can do to determine your particular engine's needs. For one thing: place 2 of your new pistons (without rings is OK) on their rods on opposite sides of the engine (like #1 and #4 or #2 and #3) and place the bottom gasket on the cylinders, then drop them into place. Bring the pistons to TDC and measure the depth from the top of the cylinder deck to the top(s) of the pistons: this is the clearance was was added (or not) to those cylinders. The original engine design had 0.00" clearance here: only the head gasket (originally 0.8mm thick) comprised the clearance between the deck and the head. Often there is extra height here: it can be safely milled off now, especially due to the extra thickness of modern head gaskets.

In the head: the valve pockets were deepened by about 1mm, creating small dished pockets where they now reside. This, too, lowered the compression a bit on these heads by increasing the chamber volume about 0.2cc per chamber and reduced the intake charge in proportion (by slightly delaying the intake suction moments) so as to reduce overlap charge and its resulting MPG losses. This improved the burn rate and made cleaner sparkplugs, too. To discover how much you can safely mill off the head toward increasing compression, measure from the edges of the intake valves to the head's deck, and mill off only enough to preserve (at least) 1.5mm of distance between the piston domes and the edges of the intake valves to ensure valve clearance at redline speeds. If you plan on running the engine hard and at high RPM, consider switching the valve springs to the ones found in the earlier engines: they are a little stronger at closing them at high RPM. The K4 and later heads have progressive valve springs for less cam drag, but they do close the valves a little slower at high engine speeds.

Generally speaking: it is necessary to mill of between 0.010" and 0.020" from the cylinder deck to restore the sealing of the O-rings between the cylinders and head, due to the increased thickness of the modern head gaskets. If this isn't done at a minimum, the engine will leak oil from these passages: the situation is that Honda always spec'd the MINIMUM thickness of the O-ring that will fit in any given spot, using their original design tolerances, and their supplier's head gaskets: today all those gaskets are thicker. The depth of the pockets where these O-rings reside, with the chosen head gasket in place, must let those O-rings rise above the head gasket surface by 0.2-0.3mm to have it seal well. Since this same thickness also reduces compression, milling the cylinders will in turn lower the head chamber to the pistons to recover that lost pressure.



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Offline _mark

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Re: Estimating the squish in the rebuild of the engine.
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2020, 03:32:17 AM »
Hi Hondaman thanks for the answer.
My engine is late K1; the head has the two "ribs" on cooling fins and the hut valve seat on exhaust valves.
It was delivered to european market (I don't know if matters).
I read somewhere that original construction quote is 72.3 mm
Thanks and Regards.
 
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 03:49:03 AM by _mark »