Author Topic: CB550 Four K3 1979  (Read 9144 times)

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Offline Cruiser

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CB550 Four K3 1979
« on: June 25, 2022, 02:14:28 PM »
So I finally found one!

Has been sitting in a dry garage for the last 7 years somewhere in Germany. Went to pick it up today.

Some things are no longer stock:
  • The blue color
  • Raised handlebars and ugly grips
  • Seat has been recovered (badly)
  • Maybe more stuff you guys can spot? (Let me know!)

But other than that she seems stock. Oh and four original exhausts in pretty good condition!
No real rust anywhere, some very tiny spots that will buff out.

Front brake is seized up, clutch cable is stuck in its hose, front of the engine seems to be covered in oil, battery is dead (electrics and starter work, tried with a booster). When I open the fuel line, she leaks fuel out of the breather tubes, so the carburator floats will be stuck and thus leak. Carbs will need a thorough inspection and clean. I also need to do a good compression check. I was only able to check cyl 1 and 4, but they seemed very low (both exactly 60 psi) so maybe there is a sticky valve or maybe one of the piston rings is not opening against the cylinder (its been 7 years since she ran). Should I try some Marvel Mystery Oil, let it sit for a night and try again? Of would you do a top end rebuild anyway?

Also chassis and engine numbers don't match, so I suspect its a different engine, or are they not the same anyway?

Some stuff to do, but that's also the reason why I bought her, going to be a nice first project!

I need to get a decent spark plug socket, mine is unable to reach down in the narrow hole of cyl 2 and 3, any recomme dations for a good one? Think I need to scavenge Amazon for rebuild kits now  ;D

Pictures? Hell yeah!
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2022, 03:29:32 PM »
good score,the engine and frame numbers dont ever match.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 03:36:54 PM by dave500 »

Offline Scott S

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2022, 04:05:11 PM »
 Looks like a great start. The paint isn't so bad. A bit nicer seat cover and some lower bars and rock it like that.
 Most of the mechanical stuff you mentioned is pretty straight forward. Good find.
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 06:28:49 PM »
Nice one! Will you do something about the cracked side cover or am I just seeing something that isn’t there?
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2022, 06:31:31 PM »
Post chassis and engine numbers so they can be checked.
Rings may be sticky, do a little soaking.
Top end job is a good idea but remember, all of it is pretty old, need to make sure the cam chain tensioner is in good shape.
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Offline beemerbum

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2022, 06:34:06 PM »
+1 on the cam chain tensioner.

Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2022, 09:43:29 PM »
Post chassis and engine numbers so they can be checked.
Rings may be sticky, do a little soaking.
Top end job is a good idea but remember, all of it is pretty old, need to make sure the cam chain tensioner is in good shape.

CB550K2024936
CB550E2025640

Cam chain tension has to be good in order to get optimal compression values I reckon (so the valves don't open to early and lose pressure?) ?

Nice one! Will you do something about the cracked side cover or am I just seeing something that isn’t there?

Yeah, has a little crack in it. Both sides.

First off I'll be taking the front caliper off, so I can move the bike easier. Now its really tight. Hope I can get if off the disc though.
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 11:08:26 PM »
Hendrik, first thing I'd do, is have the appropiate documents at hand dealing with your specific model.
They're here:
Parts List: https://www.honda4fun.com/dwnload/Part-List/CB500/CB500-K3-CB550-K3-K4-Parts-List.pdf
BTW, p.4 informs you, yours is a CB550K3, probably the -G model.
If you need the Owner's Manual, it is here: https://www.honda4fun.com/dwnload/Owners-Manual/CB500K-CB550K-Owners-Manual.pdf
Remark: do not try to adjust the camchain tensioner as described in this particular Owner's Manual; you will never get it right that way. Do it as described elsewhere, so no running engine.
The Shop Manual CB500-550, which includes an addendum covering your model, is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/88zdzlj8olqi8pl/Honda%20CB500_CB550%20%20Four%20Service%20Manual.pdf?dl=0
Best tool for the sparkplugs is the Honda one. If not in the toolbag under the seat, it is still available for a reasonable price at https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550k3-four-germany_model14674/wrench-plug_89216323000/
This is what has worked best for me. Before I mount a sparkplug, I screw the little ferrule on top, some non OEM plugcaps require, but... just a few turns. Now press the plug in the Honda tool, so the rubber, high inside that tool, will have a firm grip. The sparkplugs hexagon is now exactly where it should be and the whole combination is stiff and easy to work with, meaning the plug will not fall out. Screw the sparkplug down and tighten. Withdraw the plugtool and then simply remove that ferrule again. On removing the sparkplugs, do the opposite: withdraw the plugcap, carefully avoiding a too wild movement of your hand that may result in a compromised connection cap - wire or even wire - coil. Then screw the little ferrule on top of the plug - a few turns is enough - and firmly press the Honda tool on it. No risk of damaging the porcelain and guaranteed no more prematurely falling sideways of the #2 and #3 plug, which would result in a hassle to get them out.
BTW, abstain from resistor sparkplugs, no matter what manuals may say.
Some further advice, if you'll allow me. Be very terughoudend (reluctant) in 'repairs' and 'replacing' parts. Many have no idea how  many kilometers these bikes can and will travel without you having to 'repair' things. Many do have a drive 'to do things'. Don't start with just replacing parts and if you do, do it step by step or you will never find out what was wrong. A proper diagnosis always comes first. We can guide you with that.
Expect some work cleaning the carbs. Ultrasonic is no guarantee. All can be done from the floatchamber side, so no sync afterwards is required. No need to separate them from the rack. Do not 'conclude' carbs need a sync rightaway. The cause of a not so nice idle, lies usually elsewhere. Your engine can actually do tens of thousands of kilometers without needing a sync. Do not 'assume' floats need readjusting. They never do, unless someone has messed with them. It is not even in the maintenance scheme. After being cleaned, this model carbs may require a socalled maintenance dose (say 15cc) of a fuel system cleaner at every tankfill. this has to do with the changed properties of gasoline. I'd opt for the designer fuels like Shell's V-power, BP's Ultimate and the like. You may want to verify the float chambers vent. To prolong the life of silencers, avoid short trips. This goes for your model even more, as they lack the little drain holes previous models had. Success!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 02:39:56 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 02:37:48 AM »
If the caliper is siezed DO NOT disconnect the hydraulics but unbolt the complete unit and use the master cylinder to pump out the piston, its by far the easiest way.
You will need to keep topping up the master and put the caliper in a bucket or tin to catch the mess when the piston pops out.
ANY pitting on the piston is too much and the seal groove WILL need cleaning out with something like a dental pick.
Here in UK we have a supplier of kits including stainless piston and seal
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Little_Phil

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2022, 03:08:07 AM »
It can be fun and it can be frustrating. I’ve one similar and still can’t get it to run well with the pd carbs on these. Fine if I use the earlier ones. Can see quite a few non standard fittings on the engine so it’s had some previous “work”. As said do all the items you mention + regular maintenance items, get a good battery and see what you’ve got. If you do ever remove the exhausts they may well rattle!

Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2022, 04:10:18 AM »
[...] front of the engine seems to be covered in oil [...]
Sweating or even some leaking of oil at the head is not a good reason to take a CB500/550 engine apart. They all leak to some degree or will soon...
[...] Of would you do a top end rebuild anyway? [...]
No, not yet.
[...] If you do ever remove the exhausts they may well rattle!
I see no reason to remove the exhausts yet, but when you do it, make sure you have sufficient cushions right underneath them to absorp the impact, because - no matter your level of concentration - you will drop them! And if they didn't rattle before, they will now. ;D
CB500K2-ED Excel black
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Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2022, 08:01:12 AM »
As an asside i would think it is a 78 model old stock registered in 79 because they were not made in 79
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2022, 10:41:47 AM »
Hendrik, first thing I'd do, is have the appropiate documents at hand dealing with your specific model.
They're here:
Parts List: https://www.honda4fun.com/dwnload/Part-List/CB500/CB500-K3-CB550-K3-K4-Parts-List.pdf
BTW, p.4 informs you, yours is a CB550K3, probably the -G model.
If you need the Owner's Manual, it is here: https://www.honda4fun.com/dwnload/Owners-Manual/CB500K-CB550K-Owners-Manual.pdf
Remark: do not try to adjust the camchain tensioner as described in this particular Owner's Manual; you will never get it right that way. Do it as described elsewhere, so no running engine.
The Shop Manual CB500-550, which includes an addendum covering your model, is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/88zdzlj8olqi8pl/Honda%20CB500_CB550%20%20Four%20Service%20Manual.pdf?dl=0
Best tool for the sparkplugs is the Honda one. If not in the toolbag under the seat, it is still available for a reasonable price at https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550k3-four-germany_model14674/wrench-plug_89216323000/
This is what has worked best for me. Before I mount a sparkplug, I screw the little ferrule on top, some non OEM plugcaps require, but... just a few turns. Now press the plug in the Honda tool, so the rubber, high inside that tool, will have a firm grip. The sparkplugs hexagon is now exactly where it should be and the whole combination is stiff and easy to work with, meaning the plug will not fall out. Screw the sparkplug down and tighten. Withdraw the plugtool and then simply remove that ferrule again. On removing the sparkplugs, do the opposite: withdraw the plugcap, carefully avoiding a too wild movement of your hand that may result in a compromised connection cap - wire or even wire - coil. Then screw the little ferrule on top of the plug - a few turns is enough - and firmly press the Honda tool on it. No risk of damaging the porcelain and guaranteed no more prematurely falling sideways of the #2 and #3 plug, which would result in a hassle to get them out.
BTW, abstain from resistor sparkplugs, no matter what manuals may say.
Some further advice, if you'll allow me. Be very terughoudend (reluctant) in 'repairs' and 'replacing' parts. Many have no idea how  many kilometers these bikes can and will travel without you having to 'repair' things. Many do have a drive 'to do things'. Don't start with just replacing parts and if you do, do it step by step or you will never find out what was wrong. A proper diagnosis always comes first. We can guide you with that.
Expect some work cleaning the carbs. Ultrasonic is no guarantee. All can be done from the floatchamber side, so no sync afterwards is required. No need to separate them from the rack. Do not 'conclude' carbs need a sync rightaway. The cause of a not so nice idle, lies usually elsewhere. Your engine can actually do tens of thousands of kilometers without needing a sync. Do not 'assume' floats need readjusting. They never do, unless someone has messed with them. It is not even in the maintenance scheme. After being cleaned, this model carbs may require a socalled maintenance dose (say 15cc) of a fuel system cleaner at every tankfill. this has to do with the changed properties of gasoline. I'd opt for the designer fuels like Shell's V-power, BP's Ultimate and the like. You may want to verify the float chambers vent. To prolong the life of silencers, avoid short trips. This goes for your model even more, as they lack the little drain holes previous models had. Success!

Thats some really good advice! Thx for that! Also, I assume you are either Dutch of Belgian considering the 'terughoudend'  ;) I'm from Belgium ;)

[...] front of the engine seems to be covered in oil [...]
Sweating or even some leaking of oil at the head is not a good reason to take a CB500/550 engine apart. They all leak to some degree or will soon...
[...] Of would you do a top end rebuild anyway? [...]
No, not yet.
[...] If you do ever remove the exhausts they may well rattle!
I see no reason to remove the exhausts yet, but when you do it, make sure you have sufficient cushions right underneath them to absorp the impact, because - no matter your level of concentration - you will drop them! And if they didn't rattle before, they will now. ;D

Yeah, first I'll just clean the carbs, redo the front brake and master brake cylinder and see what she'll do. The spark plugs I've removed where nicely coffee brown, so that appears to me that it was running nicely on its last km's.
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2022, 01:31:34 PM »
How about the color? Definately the blue isnt stock right? I thought they only came in excel black and candy alpha red?

When I take the side covers off, they seem to be red-ish on the back. There's also a date like stamp which I would interpret as january 1978
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2022, 01:39:13 PM »
As an asside i would think it is a 78 model old stock registered in 79 because they were not made in 79

K3 or 4? I would think 4 with stepped seat, but the chassis number says k3. Also because the seatof k4 is actually stepped up. They just re-covered it, the original is underneath it and they just glued a new cover on and attached it with rivets. You can actually feel the original stitched seat underneath it. Unless they placed the k4 seat on the k3... Looks to be pointing up at the back imo.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 01:44:01 PM by HendrikDG »
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2022, 03:34:57 PM »
The K4 was a K3 with minor mods and different colours plus not available in all markets, like not found in UK
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2022, 03:26:03 AM »
Post chassis and engine numbers so they can be checked.
Rings may be sticky, do a little soaking.
Top end job is a good idea but remember, all of it is pretty old, need to make sure the cam chain tensioner is in good shape.

Soaking with normal engine oil? Or would you recommend something like Marvel Mystery oil?

Also I notice that the manual still speaks about DOT 3 brake fluids. I guess DOT 4 wasn't available in those days? But I assume that I can also use the DOT 4 (after entirely flushing the old oil out) since DOT 4 has a higher boiling capacity? I will upgrade the brake lines to braided ones normally since that's always a safe upgrade imo.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 03:36:56 AM by HendrikDG »
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2022, 06:50:55 AM »
If you are going to oil the cylinders, use an oil that burns off cleanly.  Two stroke oils are made for this, especially the synthetic based ones.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2022, 12:15:58 AM »
Expect some work cleaning the carbs. Ultrasonic is no guarantee. All can be done from the floatchamber side, so no sync afterwards is required. No need to separate them from the rack. Do not 'conclude' carbs need a sync rightaway. The cause of a not so nice idle, lies usually elsewhere. Your engine can actually do tens of thousands of kilometers without needing a sync. Do not 'assume' floats need readjusting. They never do, unless someone has messed with them. It is not even in the maintenance scheme. After being cleaned, this model carbs may require a socalled maintenance dose (say 15cc) of a fuel system cleaner at every tankfill. this has to do with the changed properties of gasoline. I'd opt for the designer fuels like Shell's V-power, BP's Ultimate and the like. You may want to verify the float chambers vent. To prolong the life of silencers, avoid short trips. This goes for your model even more, as they lack the little drain holes previous models had. Success!

Well the carbs will need a thorough clean since they haven't been used in 7 years (and fuel leaks out the overflow tubes). I get the fact that you don't always need to replace all the parts, but at least you'd need to replace the rubber sealings. I've been looking for a kit that just has these but I don't seem to find any. The only "decent" set I seem to find is this one: https://www.cmsnl.com/products/cb550k77-cb550k7816100-404-004carb_01600key0899nfr/ But I'm not sure if this is for one carb, or a set for all four.

CMSNL isn't really replying to my question either. So anyone who knows?

Considering the drain holes you say from the silencers, mine have this tiny hole under the exhaust hole itself, is that the drain hole you mean?
Honda CB550 Four K3 1978
BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline newday777

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2022, 03:33:27 AM »
Expect some work cleaning the carbs. Ultrasonic is no guarantee. All can be done from the floatchamber side, so no sync afterwards is required. No need to separate them from the rack. Do not 'conclude' carbs need a sync rightaway. The cause of a not so nice idle, lies usually elsewhere. Your engine can actually do tens of thousands of kilometers without needing a sync. Do not 'assume' floats need readjusting. They never do, unless someone has messed with them. It is not even in the maintenance scheme. After being cleaned, this model carbs may require a socalled maintenance dose (say 15cc) of a fuel system cleaner at every tankfill. this has to do with the changed properties of gasoline. I'd opt for the designer fuels like Shell's V-power, BP's Ultimate and the like. You may want to verify the float chambers vent. To prolong the life of silencers, avoid short trips. This goes for your model even more, as they lack the little drain holes previous models had. Success!

Well the carbs will need a thorough clean since they haven't been used in 7 years (and fuel leaks out the overflow tubes). I get the fact that you don't always need to replace all the parts, but at least you'd need to replace the rubber sealings. I've been looking for a kit that just has these but I don't seem to find any. The only "decent" set I seem to find is this one: https://www.cmsnl.com/products/cb550k77-cb550k7816100-404-004carb_01600key0899nfr/ But I'm not sure if this is for one carb, or a set for all four.

CMSNL isn't really replying to my question either. So anyone who knows?

Considering the drain holes you say from the silencers, mine have this tiny hole under the exhaust hole itself, is that the drain hole you mean?

The Honda kits are for 1 carb so you will need to order 4 kits.

The drain holes in the exhaust are usually at the lower end of the silencers near the weld to the head pipes.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2022, 08:24:08 AM »
For O ring kits ask Nurse Julie on here, way cheaper than Honda
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Cruiser

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2022, 01:50:41 PM »
Pulled the carbs off the bike. Boy thats one tight spot the get those out. Is there a good way to get the air filter more out of the way?
Maybe get the rubbers from the intake out and refit them once the carbs are back in place?

Once they were loose I could gently 'walk' them out but its a really tight squeeze.

I just let the old fuel out of the bowls and as you can see, that looked pretty nasty. Going to give the outside a good clean first since they are really oily/sticky and then will get cracking on the inside. So you guys recommend leaving them on the rack and get it all our from the top/bottom? Can you get them cleaned out decently then? (I'll need to check if they will fit in the parts washer on the rack as well)

Didn't have any more time today to open them up. I want to take my time for that.

I'll keep you guys updated.

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BMW R1150RT 2004

Offline bryanj

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2022, 02:57:22 PM »
It is NOT a good idea to split the pd type carbs from the rack due to the way the choke is assembled.
You need to carefully strip each carb keeping the parts seperate, you can remove the pressed in pilots with CAREFUL use of vice grips pulling and twisting then you need to find somebody with a large enough ultrasonic tank to take the full bank of bodies.
The mixture screws that face downwards have very fragile tips and on each one has a spring, small washer and tiny O ring on them and need all those to work properly.
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2022, 03:07:52 PM »
Usually an air filter that dirty will cause rich mixtures.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: CB550 Four K3 1979
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2022, 09:37:01 PM »
Here some pics of the idle mixture screw and the removal of the slow jet.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
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