Author Topic: Carb frustrations  (Read 2352 times)

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Wis

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Carb frustrations
« on: March 06, 2007, 08:44:27 AM »
Ok....read all the carb faq's....and now i'm more confused than i was! 1974 cb550....properly cleaned and rebuilt the carbs...re-installed...she fired right up! WOOHOO...i did something right. Went for test ride...takes off ok..if i'm careful. Try to jump off the line, and it bogs out. Take off slowly and she pulls fine untill i try to wind out the rpm's, then it bogs down again. Is this a sign of lean-ness or richness? i have the clip on the needle in the second groove(from pointed end). I'm running pod filters and stock 4/4 pipes. Any tips on what to adjust? Hoping i dont have to take carbs apart again :-\
(only running pods because it came with no airbox...needed some kinda filter)
Thanx for reading...thanx even more for helping!

Uncleben89

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 09:22:10 AM »
how many turns out are the air screws?

Wis

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 09:48:05 AM »
started with 1 1/2 turns on airscrew. it was my understanding that the air screw is mainly idle adjusting......but if i knew what i was taliking about i wouldnt be here!  :P

kettlesd

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 10:09:10 AM »
Could be a low float setting or a restriction (either a kink or blocked filter or vent) in the fuel line. Either will mean that when you whack the throttle, there is not enough fuel make-up in the carbs to feed the main jet what it wants, and it takes a second or two for it to fill and catch up.

Offline mrbreeze

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2007, 10:13:10 AM »
My K5 750 has the needles set at the 4th from the bottom groove to run it's best. This is the lean side of adjustment(low needle). You are on the rich side (high needle). I don't know for sure on the 550's but on the 750's, yes the carbs do have to come back off to make changes to needle settings. After I rebuilt my carbs...I started in the middle groove. Then (unfortunately for me) I went to where you are. Definetly worse. Hope you get er dialed in.
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Wis

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2007, 10:29:05 AM »
so....if  i'm lean...then moving the clip down to first notch will make it richer right?
and by moving the clip down i mean towards the point.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2007, 10:52:16 AM »
Don't make adjustments based on guessing how it's running.  Do a plug chop and find out for sure, but chances are, if your carbs are not already re-jetted for pod filters, then they're running lean.

Wis

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2007, 11:41:27 AM »
gonna do the plug chop. As far as i know, the jets were never changed...i used clip position based on what was on the old needle. I just got back from a longer test ride...seems to run fine as long as i don't open the throttle more than 1/2 to 3/4.
Ran up to 70+ with no problem, but it seems like i have a lot more throttle left than i used to.So, if i do have to get new jets...any recomendations?  and with new jets do i get a new needle or just reposition the clip?

Where would i be without this forum!
 

tmht

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2007, 12:09:52 PM »
gonna do the plug chop. As far as i know, the jets were never changed...i used clip position based on what was on the old needle. I just got back from a longer test ride...seems to run fine as long as i don't open the throttle more than 1/2 to 3/4.
Ran up to 70+ with no problem, but it seems like i have a lot more throttle left than i used to.So, if i do have to get new jets...any recomendations?  and with new jets do i get a new needle or just reposition the clip?

Where would i be without this forum!
 

Here is a good guide as to what in the carb does what and when it does it. Leave the jets alone until you figure out whether or not you are lean or not. Do the plug chop, look at the plugs, tan plugs are happy, white are lean, black are rich. (the basics anyway). You'll see from the chart that your main jets really only take effect from 3/4 to WOT, so I would start with getting the needles straight and get the bike pulling strong up to 3/4 throttle. Then if it still doesn't pull, start thinking about the mains, which means another plug chop. If your plugs are still indicating lean or leanish, you can wrap some masking tape around part of each pod to artificially lean out the mixture. This will make the bike too lean below 3/4 throttle but you should feel the difference. I don't know too many people that have had to go more than one size over stock mains with pods. (Sorry, I don't know the stock size of the 550 main jet.)

The biggest thing to remember is to make only one change at a time!
You will be chasing your tail otherwise.

tmht

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2007, 01:10:23 PM »


When doing the masking tape thing you will be restricting air while delivering the same amount of fuel, so this will be "artificially" RICHING the mixture, no leaning.  Im sure thats what he meant, just mixed it up.  Just making it clear to avoid confusion. ;)

Yeah you need bigger jets to go with those pods, cant help you on size though.  And remember that air/fuel mixture is controlled by throttle position, not RPM's or speed.  Your mains are too small since it shows up at 3/4 to WOT but you may need to richen the needle position as well, heed the other good advice of changing one variable at a time.

D'OH! That's what I meant... This is what happens when I try and bust out a post while I am waiting on a program to compile... brain doesn't switch from computer mode to motorcycle mode as quick as it used to...

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2007, 01:41:54 PM »
The 550 carbs don't have an enrichment device for getting fuel into runners when the throttle is quickly opened and the throat pressure increases.  It relies on an over rich idle mixture for throttle response and even then it will not take drastic snap open throttle without the dreaded wheeze.

It will take 1/2 throttle changes when properly adjusted.  

You're right pods filters are better for the engine than nothing.  But, they change the throat pressures in the carbs, which effects how the fuel is drawn from the jets.  Almost certainly, you will have to enrich the slow circuit to regain your throttle response.  The screws you have are air bleeds.  Turning them in will enrich the idle mix.  However, the stock air screws have hollow tips and this effectively limits their adjustment range.  Turn them in an eight of a turn at a time and test low speed pick up from about 1500 rpm in gear.  Mark your throttle so you know you aren't feeding it more than 1/2 a throttle twist.  Keep turning in the screws and testing until no improvement in pick up is obtained, then back them out 1/8 turn to the last best adjustment.
If you still find the throttle response unacceptable, then you will need a larger slow jet.  Your bike should have a #38 if stock.  You could get a #40 from a cb500, or from motorcyclecarbs.com or sudco.com.

You may have guessed that this idle enrichment may not fix your mid and high speed issues and you are correct.  Although, the low speed has some effect on the mid and WOT throttle positions, it's contributions are small.  And, the lack a restrictive filter element can have repercussions with both the slide needle setting and the main jet size.
Your main jet should be #100 if it is stock.  But, you might not need to change that.  You may get by with raising the slide needle another clip position.  Test drive and if you still have difficulty getting to top speed with WOT, then you will likely have to go with a larger main jet, as well.

Of course, you can probably avoid all the this test and adjustment by obtaining and installing the stock air box.  Even with a Uni Foam filter element inside, all the stock, factory settings, and adjustment, make the bike work well in the street environment.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Wis

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2007, 04:31:34 PM »
Thanx Guys!
  Seem to have the low speed working ok....gonna do the plug chop and see what i can find out. I'm almost close enough to leave it alone, but i seem to have lots of twist room left in the throttle.May try the clip position, but not looking forward to taking it all apart again. Always have my eye out for the aibox too, just in case anyone's looking to unload one.
 Peace
    Wis

Offline mrbreeze

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2007, 06:23:52 PM »
I think you "DO" need to remove the carbs and put your needles down . But on the other hand you can do what everyone else here says.You can change your mains later...without pulling the carbs. I'm not getting pushy.....I'm just telling you what made mine right. GOOD LUCK!!!!
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carb frustrations
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2007, 06:56:38 PM »
I have changed my slide needles with the carbs still on the bike, a 74 CB550.  Just have to outsmart the mechanical puzzle.
Still have to synch them afterwards. But, I didn't have to worry about rubber coupler damage on the airbox side.
 But, with pod filters carb removal should be a bit easier.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.