Author Topic: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound  (Read 1399 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline TheWiredNinja

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2023, 06:46:42 PM »
If it were me I'd clean the piston with solvent and carefully scotch-brite clean then hone the rusty cylinder, just enough to remove the rust, then measure, also evaluate pitting. Then I would look for any radial play on the rods, I would suggest check-torque of the rod bolts and main bearings. Sometimes things look worse than they are in pictures. I can see lathe marks still on the pistons under the crud I believe. The cylinder ridge where the rings stop sweeping can offer indications of use. Shop manual has suggested piston to cylinder clearance limitations. While it looks bad, is it really pooched beyond limits?

If I hadn't bought new cylinders to move on towards an 836cc, then I would absolutely try and rehone these cylinders.  I agree that they look way worse in the pictures and could easily clean up nicely - like I said, no gouge marks or pitting whatsoever.  Maybe a .25 or .50 overbore at worse case.  Great idea on any play or issues with the rods with the pistons off - I want to avoid opening the cases as much as possible.

Can't say for sure if it was the issue of course, but an exhaust leak between head and header can sound all the world like a ticking from the engine.  I've seen it happen enough that it is the first thing I look at.  Usually tightening the nuts/bolts cures it.  If not, new exhaust gaskets are needed.  They will only compress so much.

I would tend to shy away from this suggestion as I'm fairly certain there wasn't any exhaust leaks.  In fact, I checked this for this before without issue.  At this point, I'm inclined to believe it was rusty valve guides and excessive play - I can actually see unusual wear marks at the very top of valve #3 on the exhaust side.  I'll see if I can inspect further and take a picture

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,269
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2023, 07:11:10 PM »
Please post smaller pics!!! Also, post pics of the cam lobes and rocker surfaces.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline newday777

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,230
  • Avatar is my 76 K6 in Colorado w/Cody on back 1980
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2023, 12:57:05 AM »


If I hadn't bought new cylinders to move on towards an 836cc, then I would absolutely try and rehone these cylinders.  I agree that they look way worse in the pictures and could easily clean up nicely - like I said, no gouge marks or pitting whatsoever.  Maybe a .25 or .50 overbore at worse case.  Great idea on any play or issues with the rods with the pistons off - I want to avoid opening the cases as much as possible.

  At this point, I'm inclined to believe it was rusty valve guides and excessive play - I can actually see unusual wear marks at the very top of valve #3 on the exhaust side.  I'll see if I can inspect further and take a picture


Welcome to the forum TheWiredNinja

In my reading through this thread you have running, your video noises, your replies (and the bits of information you have added through the thread and some missing information from the beginning of your situation) and waiting on some missing information from you on the internal conditions and pics of key parts, #3 valve end wear, your stuck valve, the valve guides and valve end play, wear on cam chain guide and slipper, (and you didn't say how long you rode it before tearing it down between your posts in April and you coming back yesterday to fill in more updating), I've screen shot they key points in my takeaway. The short video clips points to top end not bottom end noises. But you didn't say if you did a stethoscope pinpoint of the noises.
Bottom line, you are on the right track in going to the 836 bore(as Hondaman has said in the past the bores get egg-shaped and if you go by looks alone without internal bore mic checking, your saying you would have just honed and new rings would have been disappointing 😞).
The head you bought I hope has new valves, guides and springs?(you didn't elaborate on the new head).
If you haven't bought them yet, replace the cam chain guide parts with new parts as well as the cam chain so they don't fail on you shortly.
Hope this helps you along on your bike.

BTW Go to the new members introduction section and introduce yourself and your bike. Pictures are always welcome and of your history with the bike.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 01:00:10 AM by newday777 »
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline TheWiredNinja

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2023, 10:53:13 AM »
Sorry for the lack of information and introduction.  So it is a K2 1972 CB750 that was all original with 11,000 miles that sat for 30 years and I bought it as a covid lockdown project.  I have modified the bike to be a sort of "hybrid cafe racer" but kept to the original design for the most part. It was clear that there was quite a bit of moisture that sat in the engine due to the rust internally on the valves and guides on the exhaust side but the engine did turn over easily.   I wanted to complete the bike 'as-is' knowing the engine will need a rebuild but since the engine started right up after I cleaned the carbs and I unstuck the one valve on #3, I rode it until it became problematic.  I would say I put on around 2000-3000 km since and rode it fairly aggressively without many issues. 

Issues that were present:  rising idle when the engine became hot, oil burning when the engine was hot, and I would say the engine was a little "buzzy" at high RPM but I don't have reference to sorted CB750's (and I'm led to believe they should be very smooth). 

I have attached pictures of the bike and top end parts which all show nominal signs of wear and zero rust.  There is a minor chip on one of the camshaft lobes as pictures but it is offset.  I've attached a picture of the associated rocker as well showing its damage... I don't believe that would be the cause of the ticking, but I'm glad I have replacement parts.

The ticking sound developed after I put it away from sitting outside during the winter and it subsequently became more difficult to start and slight loss in response/power the following Spring.  I double checked all clearances and they were fine.  I did try to pinpoint the ticking sound using all the mentioned 'tricks' but failed to locate it other than it being in the vicinity of the middle of the engine and possibly towards the top end (this may explain why it could be the valve guides, especially on #3).  Speaking of which, I cannot take a picture of the slight abrasion marks on #3 that I noticed as it needed to be pressed downwards by the cam to clearly show this.

Upgrades and new parts include:  new cylinders modified and bored by CycleX to 836cc with JE domed Pistons, RC295 camshaft, M.R stage 3 ported head with oversize intake valves, titanium retainers, Kibblewhite valves, bronze guides, serdi valve job.  On top of that, I have purchased refurbished guide pins and rockers by CycleX just to be safe and ready for the RC295 camshaft.

I have also gotten a new cam chain guide but I think I will keep the exiting chain as it looks to be in great condition with zero pitting and rust (I'd have to open the cases up anyhow to replace and I'd want to avoid that)

Lastly, I just wanted to add that the bores could easily be honed and cleaned up for reuse.  There is corrosion but zero pitting and they are all smooth - I suppose the mileage I put on the bike may have certainly helped clean this up without problem.  I decided to get refurbished head and cylinders because it was more cost effective buying it from the guys who were going to perform the work on the parts, rather than shipping it to them, waiting, and shipping it back (I'm located in Canada)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 11:08:14 AM by TheWiredNinja »

Offline newday777

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,230
  • Avatar is my 76 K6 in Colorado w/Cody on back 1980
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2023, 02:22:55 PM »
Good to hear you got the head from Mike. It'll go well with the pistons and cam.

Pictures of the cam chain guide assembly pieces?
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline TheWiredNinja

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2023, 09:21:55 PM »
I've attached pictures of the chain guide assembly - I have new ones on hand and although it looks 'ok' there is a small amount of rust and Hondaman's describes that if there is any rust present, to change it out.

I managed take out all engine studs successfully with the double bolt and vice grip method.  Only one needed the addition of some heat.  The only strange problem I've encountered is that I seem to be missing a dowel on the gearbox side.  The starter gear has a circular shim and what should be a dowel holding it and the gear in place - it was not there when I took the cover off, which is disconcerting... and yes, I checked on the inside of the stator including the backside of the magnets, it is not there.  I fear it may have fallen on the underside of the flywheel gear and into the case :'(

Anyone know the size of this dowel and where I can get it?  Is there a history of these coming lose or losing them in the case somehow?  (god I hope not..)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 09:25:26 PM by TheWiredNinja »

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,979
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2023, 11:48:12 PM »
More of a shaft than a dowel and yes they frequently stick in the case when you take it off
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline PeWe

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,546
  • Bike almost back to the 70's 2015
Re: 1972 CB750 Engine Ticking Sound
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2023, 05:03:07 AM »
Have you measured the  primary chain slack?
Around 65mm when new, 70mm is max, replace.
Should be OK at only 11.000 miles, tensioner rubber might be hard by age.

When cylinder is off, not much extra to replace primary chains and a possible old hardened retainer.
Good to investigate crank bearings too.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 05:08:23 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967