Topic: Starter issue or just bad battery...again..CB550

[denward17]

Good idea, Steve.

Might try that later today, Thanks.

[denward17]

After more battery charging (~1.5 hours); charging in manual mode:

14.2v
after resting for 30 mins. 13.1v

With ignition switch turned on, headlamp/tail lamp on; battery dropped to 12.8v, hit starter button, barely turned over, battery dropped to 8v.

Testing ignition switch:
13v at Red wire (ignition off), no current at Black wire

Turn on ignition switch, 11.5v at Red and Black wire; no headlamp

11.2 v at Red and Black wire with headlamp connected; at battery it is 12.2v, so about a 1v drop from battery to ignition switch.



It appears the starter button switch has been replaced sometime in the past.  I will check the wiring inside the head lamp bucket to make sure wires match.  Will also try to jumpstart with my truck later.

[grcamna2]

Check those wire connections 

[Bankerdanny]

It might be worth picking up a auto style ammeter and hooking it in between the battery and the starter solenoid to measure the draw from the starter. Does the power wire from the solenoid to the starter get hot when you hit the starter button?

[denward17]

All connections in headlamp bucket look right to the start button switch.
The jumper cable from the starter solenoid to +battery is a replacement, as the original was the wrong one.  It is aftermarket, but does not get hot to feel when I hit the start button, of course, it does not even turn over now.

Does it matter how the starter solenoid is connected? 
I may have inadvertently switched the battery cable vs the starter motor cable.

[scottly]

Den, please post a picture of how your solenoid is wired.

[denward17]

Pic of starter solenoid.

[scottly]

One of the large posts should be connected to the battery + terminal, and the other post should go to the starter. Are there any other connections on the starter post?

[grcamna2]

Pic of starter solenoid.

 

[Scootch]

If the battery voltage is dropping so low that means either the battery is NG or something is drawing a heck of a lot of current during start...

[denward17]

One of the large posts should be connected to the battery + terminal, and the other post should go to the starter. Are there any other connections on the starter post?

Here is a pic....Two cables attached on one side, one goes to battery+, the other goes to the wiring harness.  The other big pole only goes to the starter motor.

The two small wires are plugged into the wiring harness on backside of panel; G/R and Y/R.

Note: I did jump the battery with my car and it turned over fine for about 5-6 secs, then I could tell it started taking my car battery down just a bit and stopped.  I didn't think to try to measure anything during this test.

[scottly]

Remove the starter cable from the solenoid post, then try pushing the starter button while monitoring the battery voltage. Does the battery voltage take a drastic dive like before, or does it drop just a little bit when the solenoid clicks?

[Ozzybud]

This must be driving you crazy!
Did this bike run and turn over freely before you tore it down?
While jumping it with your car did the cables get warm?
its sounding more like the starter has some issues or the engine is tight and not free to turn.

[BenelliSEI]

Den….. take those terminals off the solenoid and give the copper eyelet ends a good tug. I had one not long ago the looked good, but under the wrap the cable had turned to white dust and there was almost no real connection…… The eyelet fell off the cable when I pulled on it!

[denward17]

Remove the starter cable from the solenoid post, then try pushing the starter button while monitoring the battery voltage. Does the battery voltage take a drastic dive like before, or does it drop just a little bit when the solenoid clicks?

13.1v before trying test...disconnected the starter cable side from solenoid.  While monitoring turned ignition sw on and hit start button.

Voltage only dropped to 12.2 and pretty much stayed there with several attempts.

[scottly]

Your starter is bad, or it's cable is shorting to ground somewhere. Take a close look where the cable enters the starter housing.

[denward17]

This must be driving you crazy!
Did this bike run and turn over freely before you tore it down?
While jumping it with your car did the cables get warm?
its sounding more like the starter has some issues or the engine is tight and not free to turn.

I didn't hear it run, was inoperable for the last 8-9 years.  I didn't notice the cables getting warm, but didn't really check.

Engine might be a little tight, I just rebuilt the top end with new .5mm over std pistons.  It does turn over easily with kickstart and the big nut at the end of the crank, although I try not to use it much.

[denward17]

Den….. take those terminals off the solenoid and give the copper eyelet ends a good tug. I had one not long ago the looked good, but under the wrap the cable had turned to white dust and there was almost no real connection…… The eyelet fell off the cable when I pulled on it!

Will check the starter cable as it's the old original, the + cable from battery is new from vintagecb750.

[denward17]

Your starter is bad, or it's cable is shorting to ground somewhere. Take a close look where the cable enters the starter housing.

Thanks Scottly, will check cable and pull starter.

[Tracksnblades1]

It might be worth picking up a auto style ammeter and hooking it in between the battery and the starter solenoid to measure the draw from the starter. Does the power wire from the solenoid to the starter get hot when you hit the starter button?

Old 550 starter post claim up to 100amp draw depending on load…
Danny’s thoughts would remove all doubts….id use a known good battery though..

Doubt if Honda published starter’s lock armature amps specs in their service manual….🤔

[Tracksnblades1]

Honda did publish it…😇😘

[Tracksnblades1]

The 8.5 volts should be the 120amp draw voltage..
The 11 and 8.5 have been misprinted…

Look in cb750k service manual. Same specs and no misprints..😇

[denward17]

Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate your thoughts and time.

I think it is a bad starter now as well.

I took the starter off and the cable looks ok to me, it is hardwired into the starter.

I hooked it up with battery cables and one of my "bad" batteries.  It spun right away, so I thought this is not it.

So decided to try to measure the volts on the battery as I tried to spin again.  It started spinning and the volts only dropped a little, then all of a sudden the starter hung up, I heard it grunt a little, the volts dropped to about 8.

So, with this isolation of the starter and seeing the volts drop, I will be shopping for a new starter, or a rebuild kit.

Pic is end of starter cable where it attaches to the solenoid.

[Tracksnblades1]

Does it smell like it’s toasted..?
Does it have any visible solder melted out…?

Too bad you don’t have a known good battery to try with it…
I’ve never had a bad Honda starter….

[bryanj]

Try taking it apart and cleaning first, i too have not seen an unrebuildable starter, except the one dropped on the floor with a cracked casing