Topic: Flake Matador Red

[Kevnz]

Hi Team,
The 350F was listed as being available in Candy Bacchus Olive and Flake Matador Red ( Sometimes, just Matador Red)
FMR comprises 3 coats, a candy silver base coat, flake silver middle coat and Candy Matador topcoat, and I have seen photos of bikes that echo that scheme. However, here in NZ at least, I have seen 350s that seem to be a non metallic, plain orange\red that differs from FMR.
These would appear to be original, unmolested parts that show no signs of the triple coat process, being just a single solid colour.
Is it possible that there was a different colour scheme for some parts of the world? I also have a pair of Candy Bacchus Olive side covers that have the 3 shades of silver, blue and gold, which all show through pretty obviously when sanding back, no such sign on the red ones. I want to paint the bike original, and much prefer the Flake colour, but just interested.
Thanks.

[newday777]

3 stage is the candy paint results.
A single stage paint just won't be an exact copy.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=181863.0


And a video of an original tank in the US at Ken Kaplan's motorcycle museum

[newday777]

The sidecovers and headlight ears you posted are well sun bleached so getting an exact matching paint of what they are now will not be correct to what it was in 72/73.

[Rayzerman]

I have to repaint mine.... preliminary discussion at local automotive paint supplier, could not look up the original Honda formula (in the link above).  While there a specialty painter guy was picking up supplies, he suggested adding flake to the silver metallic base coat, then candy red over that.  Cautioned that candy red will get darker with every additional coat.  2k clear over that.  A video I watched suggested putting on the decals, then additional clear over that.  I have to follow up with these folks as they wanted year, VIN, etc. to do a better search for the original paint...... if I can get real close, that will be OK with me, it's not like two bikes side by side is going to happen for comparison.  I think it more important to get the right size flake in the base coat so it looks original.
Just saying, consult with your local paint supplier professionals........

[69cb750]

These would appear to be original, unmolested parts that show no signs of the triple coat process, being just a single solid colour.

These parts are faded, not the original color.
CB750's used three stage paint, metallic base, tinted clear, clear

[Remcod]

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/361766195319?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=1346-175129-2357-0&ssspo=FAFPPfGgRUK&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=W2LhGeeNS5m&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


There is also a version that include the tankstripes

[denward17]

These guys list the FMR paint;

https://www.rsbikepaint.com/en-gb/colours.php#makeid=66&modelid=2093&prodyear=1972&colourscheme=3796

[Kevnz]

Thanks for the responses, but my query really relates to the fact that my parts, faded as they are. do appear to be original and show no signs of being a 3 stage candy colour, just a single stage solid. Are they original?
I'm aware of the difficulty of getting an exact match, but managed this with my 500, and it's near enough for me and most who have seen it

[Remcod]

This is original not a 3 layer candy colour.
Look in the package, its 1 color and clear:

1Basis-Lack (375ml) Flake Matador Red,
2metallic 2K-Acryl-clearcoat "21-0007"
3hardner DN 50

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[Kevnz]

This is my understanding. The Candy Bacchus side covers I have show the blue base and gold top to make green. Nothing like a red candy wash on the red ones.

[Remcod]

Ask our clubs painter, he speaks english and does awesome work, he should know:
https://tanklackieren.de/


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[seanbarney41]

Kevnz, I have seen what you are asking about before...colors that appear to be original paint without the flake where supposedly this color was never offered on a particular bike without the flake.  Hpwever, I don't know the answer.  Did Honda just run out of flake for certain batches and then just said this is still pretty, so send it?  Or was it re-painted early in life and not done exactly right?   Also other anomalies appear to exist where right year bikes have wrong year stripes or colors that were not offered that model/year at all yet there is no evidence of tampering otherwise.  I can recall several cases of original owners memory versus what the experts claim is original.

[jlh3rd]

Hi Team,
The 350F was listed as being available in Candy Bacchus Olive and Flake Matador Red ( Sometimes, just Matador Red)
FMR comprises 3 coats, a candy silver base coat, flake silver middle coat and Candy Matador topcoat, and I have seen photos of bikes that echo that scheme. However, here in NZ at least, I have seen 350s that seem to be a non metallic, plain orange\red that differs from FMR.
These would appear to be original, unmolested parts that show no signs of the triple coat process, being just a single solid colour.
Is it possible that there was a different colour scheme for some parts of the world? I also have a pair of Candy Bacchus Olive side covers that have the 3 shades of silver, blue and gold, which all show through pretty obviously when sanding back, no such sign on the red ones. I want to paint the bike original, and much prefer the Flake colour, but just interested.
Thanks.

Ask our clubs painter, he speaks english and does awesome work, he should know:
https://tanklackieren.de/


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U.S. 350 F's had one red color, Flake Matador Red. This is according to the Honda Motorcycle Identification guide.

It seems another red was available, Light Ruby Red, for other exported 350 F's. according to remcod's club painter and a CMS search
So I'd say your color is light ruby red , isn't that a one color layer?...as you state yours is?

[jlh3rd]

also, light ruby red was a color for the 400f's. There was a thread here discussing that color as looking like a solid color.

[Kevnz]

That looks like the answer. As used on the concurrent 350 twin, so either used on NZ and\or other markets, perhaps due to shortage of FMR, or other reasons, such as high UV atmosphere which would damage the flake colour prematurely ( although unlikely)
Thanks Guys, appreciate it.

[Kevnz]

As received.
Slow progress, many parts missing. Preliminary assembly to ascertain what's required.

[Kevnz]

Hi Guys,
I don't want to harp on this issue, especially as it has effectively been resolved, but the photo of the 350 on the specifications page of this site seem to depict the very shade I'm talking about. That does not look like FMR.

[seanbarney41]

yeah, a lot of the pics and info on this site's spec pages seem to be inaccurate

[Ozzybud]

Hi Guys,
I don't want to harp on this issue, especially as it has effectively been resolved, but the photo of the 350 on the specifications page of this site seem to depict the very shade I'm talking about. That does not look like FMR.

Link to this info?

Where is the specifications page?

[Kevnz]

On the main page, under resources, there is SOHC4.net.
Go there and on top of the page, the various models are listed, 350\400 combined.

[Ozzybud]

This tank on ebay right now is not FMR listed as part number 17050333671LY.

the part number on CMS  for the FMR tank is  17500333671PJ

This all point to the fact that a different red was used somewhere

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276783838388?_skw=cb350f+tank&itmmeta=01JH24T50JH1W6PJCYT15SCWH3&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKlIrQVdUALm4MZ29UiImFIMe2ANp3ugKqm6Bp0LH8N6dmgsL4xULLiaLWoSdMrDXbDeybWuKnoiBStdQxK7%2BBuRh4sdxqoQ%2F%2BCmSfa8Xfw%2BMCgj%2Fswd0ICSV6br12Rj4vZ7W6cEVUPg4VXbrwQHQDm995TYi82tSZ3LKy645Zekna1j4v%2Bl7FS0sQ2Gog9tVz3g4FcAhOLG%2FaXkNgY4c2g%2B9UBpkw0FQafL%2FQQl5Y0ojj%2BfvRjeCUkwnbjcBulSunI%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7LQ6MSIZQ

[Kevnz]

Yep, that matches my parts exactly. FWIW, the parts manual lists 11 different tanks, although it doesn't specify what the differences are, merely the markets at which they are directed. The individual components seem to be the same, so perhaps it just relates to colours.

[Ozzybud]

The last 2 of 3 letters in the part number designate color.

Flake Matador Red is a stunning color. especially when you get it out in the sun.

You will be happy if you choose that color FMR for your restoration. if the other red does match the red on CB400fs and 1975 CB360ts its definitely on a lower level of boring.

[Kevnz]

Yes, I absolutely agree on both counts. I painted a tank for the PO of both my 500s and 350, coincidentally, this shade is an exact match for the 350, left over from my wife's Honda Civic of 30 years ago. I, too thought it was too boring and convinced him this would be better. He agreed, loves it.
Digging into the colour codes, looks like there are 4 for the 350F, 1 for the 350F1, which ties in. Flake Matador Red, Candy Bacchus Olive, Silver and Light Ruby Red,  Dark Blue for the F1. I wonder if the 19 different tank numbers relate to the colour and\or language of the warning label.