Author Topic: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse  (Read 2554 times)

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Online newday777

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74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« on: July 21, 2025, 09:31:06 PM »
My friend's K4 that he bought new in 1974, has been having issues with the main 15A fuse over heating the fuse holder metal, melting the plastic in the panel of 2 different fuse panels.
2 years ago I worked on the bike after finding the battery lead terminals melted and the main battery wire connectors melted and also the wiring harness having melted pin block plastic connectors and wiring. I replaced the main positive and negative leads, repaired the harness wires and connectors as well as cleaned all the bullet connectors in the harness and rebuilt the right hand switch gear and put in a cleaned up used fuse panel I had.
Recently he has been saying the fuse panel is still heating up so Saturday he came over and I put in one of Hondaman's new ATC fuse panels. Pete is an old car buff and we used his inferred heat thermometer to measure the heat in the main fuse, it was reading 105° while we tested it Saturday.
Tonight he says it was up to 125° F while out on a ride. So something is amiss still in the harness. I noticed Saturday the headlight on/off switch was touchy so that may be getting replaced.
 
I know Andy750 recently had a harness go bad on his K4 and he ended up putting in a new harness. I don't think he has had anymore issues since??

Thoughts on this problem?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2025, 09:45:27 PM by newday777 »
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2025, 05:37:12 PM »
Check the rectifier: one diode may be bad: it will measure as "leaky' in the reverse direction, but still sorta working. I used to see this when guys would charge the [low or dead] battery with a 10 amp or larger charger, already turned on, and then clipped to the battery in the bike.

The PIV for most of the bridge rectifiers was only 25v until (officially) the K2, but the old rectifiers still showed up in the bikes after that if someone found one at Honda. The newer ones were/are 50 PIV rated, and the brand-new ones from 2005 or so are higher yet, said to be 75 volts or more.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Online newday777

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Re: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2025, 05:42:10 PM »
Check the rectifier: one diode may be bad: it will measure as "leaky' in the reverse direction, but still sorta working. I used to see this when guys would charge the [low or dead] battery with a 10 amp or larger charger, already turned on, and then clipped to the battery in the bike.

The PIV for most of the bridge rectifiers was only 25v until (officially) the K2, but the old rectifiers still showed up in the bikes after that if someone found one at Honda. The newer ones were/are 50 PIV rated, and the brand-new ones from 2005 or so are higher yet, said to be 75 volts or more.
So that will cause all the extra juice to heat up the fuse?
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2025, 12:32:33 PM »
Check the rectifier: one diode may be bad: it will measure as "leaky' in the reverse direction, but still sorta working. I used to see this when guys would charge the [low or dead] battery with a 10 amp or larger charger, already turned on, and then clipped to the battery in the bike.

The PIV for most of the bridge rectifiers was only 25v until (officially) the K2, but the old rectifiers still showed up in the bikes after that if someone found one at Honda. The newer ones were/are 50 PIV rated, and the brand-new ones from 2005 or so are higher yet, said to be 75 volts or more.
So that will cause all the extra juice to heat up the fuse?

Yep, I've seen it several times. It was hard to diagnose the first 2 times, after that I just dubbed it the "symptom of too big of a battery charger in the garage" syndrome. ;)

Back when I had my shop, it was out in farm country. Everyone had battery chargers with wheels built into them (100 amp/25 amp switch on the side), made by "Sauer" (or something like that) from the local discount superstore. One day I happened to see one plugged in at the store and went and got my voltmeter from my car: the open circuit voltage on the big cable clips was 90vDC(!) with the switch of the charger set to "HI" charge mode, and over 40vDC on "LO" mode. Then I figured out what was causing the failed rectifiers. It wasn't happening to just the Hondas, but the Suzys we sold, too, and always in Spring. The failed bikes belonged to kids who lived on farms, so it made sense: I told LOTS of [anyone who would listen] riders to use trickle chargers instead. That seemed to slow it down, at least in that town. Curiously, the 750 would fail a diode in the upper half of the rectifier, between the AC input from the alternator and (+) voltage, never on the (-) side. From that I surmised the battery chargers were electrically (transformer) isolated from the building power input (power cable), which all made perfect electrical sense. Still does.

If the hi-output charger is one of the uber-cheap modern ones it won't have a transformer, but a chopper circuit (like either triacs or SCRs in a triple-bridge configuration) that is driven by a waveform-chopping IC that slices off pieces of the AC waveform to make a lower charge rate: these can utterly destroy the old rectifiers in these bikes if the charger is plugged in (i.e., ON) and THEN attached to the battery. It only takes tenths of a second to adjust in the charger, but during those tenths-of-seconds the voltage is more than 400% of the rated PIV of these rectifiers. They can't take that for more than a few milliseconds without damaging their PN silicon junctions. It doesn't fully short them through: it just makes them 'leaky', generating lots of heat, because before they can fully melt into a short, the charger reacts and drops the voltage. But, that's long enough to hurt things. :(
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline scottly

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Re: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2025, 12:40:04 PM »
What's the charging voltage when the engine is revved up?
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Online newday777

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Re: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2025, 12:43:16 PM »
OK thanks Mark. I'll check his out when he gets back next week.
I did ask him in a text that he replied back saying he doesn't remember doing that, "I do not believe so.  But I would not bet on it." So it is a possible cause.
I think I tested the voltage output at the battery 2 years ago after repairing the harness, but didn't test individual components of the charging system.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2025, 12:45:36 PM by newday777 »
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Online newday777

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  • Posts: 6,869
  • Avatar is my 76 K6 in Colorado w/Cody on back 1980
Re: 74 K4 suffering from over heated main fuse
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2025, 12:44:47 PM »
What's the charging voltage when the engine is revved up?
I won't have the bike back for at least a week to test it.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 2 K4, 2 K6, 1 K8
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A