Topic: 550 handlebar switches -- with on/off for headlight?

[carnivorous chicken]

My '75 550K1 had an "off-on-high" switch for the headlight. My '76 550F1 does not; just low and high beam. Guessing '76 was when the change was made (although I'm talking about US bikes, I imagine there might have been some variation internationally).

Anyone know: did the 1975 550F have an off-low-high switch, or just low and high? Is it the right hand switch (like my K)? And unlike the low-high, which is on the left?

Asking because I am thinking about adding the off option. Could potentially just get a 75 K one, or something else, but also interested in ease of connections, compatibility, etc.

[Deltarider]

You can study the resp. partlists and/or let CMSNL present you which models had which (you need to be logged in for that). Or opt for what we had, as all modells for Europe - no exception - had full control.
That headlamp-always-on wiring is one of the absurdest stupidities the US has forced on poor Honda.

[bryanj]

I dont when the change started but very early 500 had off-low-high on rh switch, later had on/off on rh switch with high/low on lh switch and even later bikes had lights on as soon as ignition turned on no on/off switch and high/low on lh switch, these bikes also had different starter circuits where lights turned off then starter worked all on starter button.

If you are good at sorting things with a multimeter you can just about mix n match anything

[jlh3rd]

The U.S. '75 550F(FO) had the hi/low switch only.

[Don R]

 I installed a 750 K4 on off RH control on a 76 cb750F. A cheap 4-1 brand malfunctioning switch compounded my swap troubles but once I fixed the switch it worked fine. There are wiring differences so be prepared for a little work

[HondaMan]

The first 2 year-models of the 550 had the OFF-ON headlight switch on the right-side handlebar in USA. This changed during the 550K2 sometime, losing the
OFF-ON switch and instead the START button powered the headlight while it was not pressed. Pressing START then disconnected the headlight while the starter ran. This [mostly] stayed with the bikes after that.

[Kelly E]

My 74 CB 550K0 has the off selector but so does my 77' KZ 1000LTD. I'm not sure by what year the mandate had to be followed.

[HondaMan]

The "light on" laws in the States began in 1973 as a "suggestion" by the DOT for all motorcycles and farm implements, in IL where I was then. There were 14 States that year (IIRC) that followed this 'suggestion', and several bikes started coming in new with the lights always ON (except during START cycle on some) at my shop. The US DOT was 'suggesting' it be done to all motorcycles, and by 1977 most of the Hondas couldn't be turned OFF.

After several other States got together and filed a lawsuit against the DOT in the later 1980s this nonsense stopped, at least for a while. The States are free to require it, or not, so sometimes you need to know of it where you're riding. It is a "moving violation" in most of the States requiring it now.

[Little_Phil]

I think that most motorcyclists now choose to always have headlights on regardless of the local laws. I use an ultra bright LED in the pilot position on mine. (P position not on US models) And even many cyclists (including me) who use a flashing LED light at the front during daytime.

[Don R]

 My Rat Race has a yellow led in the park socket, it's on with the key. That way I can't forget to turn it on plus it makes an unusual light that might catch someone's attention.

[Deltarider]

My Rat Race has a yellow led in the park socket, it's on with the key. That way I can't forget to turn it on plus it makes an unusual light that might catch someone's attention.

Could you post a pic?

[Nachtderuntoten]

The "light on" laws in the States began in 1973 as a "suggestion" by the DOT for all motorcycles and farm implements, in IL where I was then. There were 14 States that year (IIRC) that followed this 'suggestion', and several bikes started coming in new with the lights always ON (except during START cycle on some) at my shop. The US DOT was 'suggesting' it be done to all motorcycles, and by 1977 most of the Hondas couldn't be turned OFF.

After several other States got together and filed a lawsuit against the DOT in the later 1980s this nonsense stopped, at least for a while. The States are free to require it, or not, so sometimes you need to know of it where you're riding. It is a "moving violation" in most of the States requiring it now.

An acquaintance of mine ended up getting an angry cop on him and several of his friends one year when they rode their Vincents in Idaho with the headlights off. The funny thing is that according to the state law 49-905(2) 'Every motorcycle [...] shall be equipped with at least one (1) [...] head lamps [...]', but nowhere does it actually state that the headlight on a motorcycle must be lit during the day. And this supported by the Motorcycle Legal Foundation: https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/

Go figure, huh?

[Deltarider]

Where I live, it's the rider's decision whether he switches on or not the headlight at daytime. Ofcourse every biker does, but's up to you.

[carnivorous chicken]

An acquaintance of mine ended up getting an angry cop on him and several of his friends one year when they rode their Vincents in Idaho with the headlights off. The funny thing is that according to the state law 49-905(2) 'Every motorcycle [...] shall be equipped with at least one (1) [...] head lamps [...]', but nowhere does it actually state that the headlight on a motorcycle must be lit during the day. And this supported by the Motorcycle Legal Foundation: https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/

Go figure, huh?

Some cops are just a55holes that want to mess with people on bikes. Some aren't -- I remember when I first got my 550K in WA state I didn't know I had to have my lights on. Cop pulled me over, told me to turn it on, and let me loose. Another time the spring on my rear brake had come off and the brake light wasn't coming on with just the rear brake. Cop pulled me over, told me, put the spring on, and away I went.

Lights were mandatory in WA and MA when I lived there, but not AZ -- which was lucky for me as I had a CB160 with a weak charging system.

** I should add that here in Mexico City there doesn't seem to be any rule to have your lights on -- plenty of people don't. But I don't know for sure, and since most cops don't even deal with bikes and people follow the "rules" such as they are pretty selectively, dunno if it would matter (until there was a cop looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it, but cars make such better targets).

[Nachtderuntoten]

An acquaintance of mine ended up getting an angry cop on him and several of his friends one year when they rode their Vincents in Idaho with the headlights off. The funny thing is that according to the state law 49-905(2) 'Every motorcycle [...] shall be equipped with at least one (1) [...] head lamps [...]', but nowhere does it actually state that the headlight on a motorcycle must be lit during the day. And this supported by the Motorcycle Legal Foundation: https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/

Go figure, huh?

Some cops are just a55holes that want to mess with people on bikes. Some aren't -- I remember when I first got my 550K in WA state I didn't know I had to have my lights on. Cop pulled me over, told me to turn it on, and let me loose. Another time the spring on my rear brake had come off and the brake light wasn't coming on with just the rear brake. Cop pulled me over, told me, put the spring on, and away I went.

Lights were mandatory in WA and MA when I lived there, but not AZ -- which was lucky for me as I had a CB160 with a weak charging system.

** I should add that here in Mexico City there doesn't seem to be any rule to have your lights on -- plenty of people don't. But I don't know for sure, and since most cops don't even deal with bikes and people follow the "rules" such as they are pretty selectively, dunno if it would matter (until there was a cop looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it, but cars make such better targets).

Yes, i looked it up: both federal and state law, for the Federation of Mexican States and for the Federal State of Mexico, agree that yes, a motorcyclist must use a headlight during the day.

According to Article 168.II.c of the Transit Regulation on Highways and Bridges of Federal Jurisdiction', federal law dictates the following:
     Los conductores de bicicletas, triciclos, motocicletas, trimotos o cuatrimotos tendrán los derechos y obligaciones establecidos en este Reglamento, que sean congruentes con la naturaleza de los vehículos que conduzcan y observarán, además, las siguientes disposiciones:
          Tratándose de motocicletas, trimotos y cuatrimotos:
               Circular en todo tiempo con las luces encendidas
I.E. Drivers of motor- bicycles, tricycles, & quadricycles must have their lights on at all times.

This is seconded by Article 37.III.a of the 'Transit Regulation for the City of Mexico', which states:
     Los  conductores  y  ocupantes  de  los  vehículos  deben  de  cumplir  con  las  disposiciones  de seguridad indicadas en el presente artículo de acuerdo a la naturaleza propia de cada vehículo.
          Adicionalmente, los motociclistas deben:
               Circular todo tiempo con las luces traseras y delanteras encendidas
I.E. Drivers of motorcycles must have their lights on at all times.

The enforcement of these laws, however, probably falls more to, as you so aptly indicated, whether or not a 'cop' be 'looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it'. 
I have no idea, however, as to how many persons ride motorcycles their in Mexico City as a percentage of total traffic; but it's possible that, since motorcycles make up a smaller segment of the driving population, the local police therefor may be less inclined to enforcement* ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Artículo 168.II.c del Reglamento de Tránsito en Carreteras y Puentes de Jurisdicción Federal:
https://mexico.justia.com/recursos/transito/reglamento-de-transito-en-carreteras-y-puentes-de-jurisdiccion-federal/titulo-cuarto/capitulo-iii/#articulo-168
Artículo 37.III.a del Reglamento de Tránsito para la Ciudad de México:
https://mexico.justia.com/recursos/transito/reglamento-de-transito-ciudad-de-mexico/

*It's equally possible, however, that, since motorcycles may make up a smaller percentage of road-going traffic; that then the local police may be more inclined to enforcement, since motorcycle being rarer would be more likely to stick to mind... In the end, i have no clue about why enforcement may be lax.

[carnivorous chicken]

An acquaintance of mine ended up getting an angry cop on him and several of his friends one year when they rode their Vincents in Idaho with the headlights off. The funny thing is that according to the state law 49-905(2) 'Every motorcycle [...] shall be equipped with at least one (1) [...] head lamps [...]', but nowhere does it actually state that the headlight on a motorcycle must be lit during the day. And this supported by the Motorcycle Legal Foundation: https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/

Go figure, huh?

Some cops are just a55holes that want to mess with people on bikes. Some aren't -- I remember when I first got my 550K in WA state I didn't know I had to have my lights on. Cop pulled me over, told me to turn it on, and let me loose. Another time the spring on my rear brake had come off and the brake light wasn't coming on with just the rear brake. Cop pulled me over, told me, put the spring on, and away I went.

Lights were mandatory in WA and MA when I lived there, but not AZ -- which was lucky for me as I had a CB160 with a weak charging system.

** I should add that here in Mexico City there doesn't seem to be any rule to have your lights on -- plenty of people don't. But I don't know for sure, and since most cops don't even deal with bikes and people follow the "rules" such as they are pretty selectively, dunno if it would matter (until there was a cop looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it, but cars make such better targets).

Yes, i looked it up: both federal and state law, for the Federation of Mexican States and for the Federal State of Mexico, agree that yes, a motorcyclist must use a headlight during the day.

According to Article 168.II.c of the Transit Regulation on Highways and Bridges of Federal Jurisdiction', federal law dictates the following:
     Los conductores de bicicletas, triciclos, motocicletas, trimotos o cuatrimotos tendrán los derechos y obligaciones establecidos en este Reglamento, que sean congruentes con la naturaleza de los vehículos que conduzcan y observarán, además, las siguientes disposiciones:
          Tratándose de motocicletas, trimotos y cuatrimotos:
               Circular en todo tiempo con las luces encendidas
I.E. Drivers of motor- bicycles, tricycles, & quadricycles must have their lights on at all times.

This is seconded by Article 37.III.a of the 'Transit Regulation for the City of Mexico', which states:
     Los  conductores  y  ocupantes  de  los  vehículos  deben  de  cumplir  con  las  disposiciones  de seguridad indicadas en el presente artículo de acuerdo a la naturaleza propia de cada vehículo.
          Adicionalmente, los motociclistas deben:
               Circular todo tiempo con las luces traseras y delanteras encendidas
I.E. Drivers of motorcycles must have their lights on at all times.

The enforcement of these laws, however, probably falls more to, as you so aptly indicated, whether or not a 'cop' be 'looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it'. 
I have no idea, however, as to how many persons ride motorcycles their in Mexico City as a percentage of total traffic; but it's possible that, since motorcycles make up a smaller segment of the driving population, the local police therefor may be less inclined to enforcement* ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Artículo 168.II.c del Reglamento de Tránsito en Carreteras y Puentes de Jurisdicción Federal:
https://mexico.justia.com/recursos/transito/reglamento-de-transito-en-carreteras-y-puentes-de-jurisdiccion-federal/titulo-cuarto/capitulo-iii/#articulo-168
Artículo 37.III.a del Reglamento de Tránsito para la Ciudad de México:
https://mexico.justia.com/recursos/transito/reglamento-de-transito-ciudad-de-mexico/

*It's equally possible, however, that, since motorcycles may make up a smaller percentage of road-going traffic; that then the local police may be more inclined to enforcement, since motorcycle being rarer would be more likely to stick to mind... In the end, i have no clue about why enforcement may be lax.

Well there you go.

There are tons of motorcycles here in Mexico City, couldn't say what percentage of total vehicles on the road, but far more than in the US (but less than in, say, Vietnam or Indonesia). Most bikes here are small -- 150cc, and you can go to a department store and by local brands like Italica for around $1000 US and ride away -- and many are used for delivery services. Bikes must be more than 250cc to go on the ring road (periferico). But similar to places like Vietnam and Indonesia, people who can't afford cars ride motorcycles which is why I think cops mostly leave them alone -- they don't have the money to pay bribes that people who drive cars have. There are people with nice, new bigger bikes including BMWs and the occasional Ducati, as well as some Harleys, but those are a tiny fraction of bikes on the road. I have never seen another SOHC4 like my bikes the whole time I have been here.

[Deltarider]

I wonder how a Mexican cop would react to this (see pic).
On all my travels I never bribed, not in Asia, not in Africa, nowhere. There may be some countries where it can be difficult. I choose not to go there. By bribing you're basically saying: you Mexicans are not our kind, you people are a different species. I hold that for racist. There are many Mexicans who fight corruption and among them there are celebrities. It's those people you betray when you bribe.
The maximum delay I once had, was in Cameroon: not even 5 minutes.
There are all kind of ways to circumvent bribing. My favourite tip I once read, is to wear a clerical collar and explain an officer in a soft voice that it is against your religion. Not that I personally had to practice it ever. 

[jlh3rd]

Betraying?...😂
I wonder just what that corrupt mexico cop would do if I refused to pay the "bribe" because I believe I'm "betraying" certain people......🙄

[kyle750]

In Thailand there is no law concerning a head light during the day.  On or off is Up-To-You.  What is shocking is the number of old, beat up scooters that are ridden at night with no headlight.  Very dangerous.

About 3 months ago I was traveling down a local, unlit small street  that is a quick short cut to get back to my home.  While turning into the narrow alleyway I did not see a small scooter (with no headlight on) and  I had to slam on the brakes and dropped my bike to the ground to avoid hitting him.  Scrapped up my hands and knees and one shoe got ripped off my foot and went airborne. 

[Deltarider]

Betraying?...😂
I wonder just what that corrupt mexico cop would do if I refused to pay the "bribe" because I believe I'm "betraying" certain people......🙄

Not to start a debate, but you could ask yourself: what is the importance of me, a tourist, being there that I'd act in a way, I would never allow myself back home, that I would give up my morals, my principles? At the root of such behaviour lies a racist attitude IMO. You could look up James Wolfensohn, former head of the Worldbank, famous speech: The Cancer of Corruption.
Therefor: what you do not want done to you or your society, do not to do to other societies.

[newday777]

Betraying?...😂
I wonder just what that corrupt mexico cop would do if I refused to pay the "bribe" because I believe I'm "betraying" certain people......🙄

Not to start a debate, but you could ask yourself: what is the importance of me, a tourist, being there that I'd act in a way, I would never allow myself back home, that I would give up my morals, my principles? At the root of such behaviour lies a racist attitude IMO. You could look up James Wolfensohn, former head of the Worldbank, famous speech: The Cancer of Corruption.
Therefor: what you do not want done to you or your society, do not to do to other societies.

Not to start a debate? No you just inject your opinions where you should just stay away from.

[carnivorous chicken]

I wonder how a Mexican cop would react to this (see pic).
On all my travels I never bribed, not in Asia, not in Africa, nowhere. There may be some countries where it can be difficult. I choose not to go there. By bribing you're basically saying: you Mexicans are not our kind, you people are a different species. I hold that for racist. There are many Mexicans who fight corruption and among them there are celebrities. It's those people you betray when you bribe.
The maximum delay I once had, was in Cameroon: not even 5 minutes.
There are all kind of ways to circumvent bribing. My favourite tip I once read, is to wear a clerical collar and explain an officer in a soft voice that it is against your religion. Not that I personally had to practice it ever. 

Not to start a debate, but you could ask yourself: what is the importance of me, a tourist, being there that I'd act in a way, I would never allow myself back home, that I would give up my morals, my principles? At the root of such behaviour lies a racist attitude IMO. You could look up James Wolfensohn, former head of the Worldbank, famous speech: The Cancer of Corruption.
Therefor: what you do not want done to you or your society, do not to do to other societies.

Uh, yeah, that's a little weird Delta, and I'm not sure if you're calling me racist because I've paid bribes to cops (a total of 3 times now, twice with my Mexican wife with me -- does that make her racist against herself?). Two of the three we were in the wrong (without knowing), once when she was 8 months pregnant we had to go to the doctor in our (then) only car and it was a day we weren't supposed to circulate because of the numbers on her plate and we didn't know). We paid less than the normal fine in order to drive away, as opposed to having to get out of the car, have it towed, having to find our way home, and having to go to court to try to get the car out of the tow yard after paying a fine. And, of course, Mexicans pay off cops all the time -- it's just easier and cheaper that getting the ticket and/or getting towed and going to court and paying the fine. So I guess Mexicans are racist against other Mexicans? Part of my work is against corruption in Southeast Asia, but on a larger scale than paying off cops (which I've done once over there, and avoided once over there). The root of the problem is, of course, low salaries for cops. Also -- I'm not a tourist. I live and work here, earn a salary in pesos, pay taxes, am a permanent resident on the verge of citizenship. The famous philosopher Rene Descartes once wrote "When you assume, you make an ass out of "u" and me" -- but I think this time it's just "u". There is also an entire thread of subaltern studies that looks at the benefits of corruption to the extremely poor. Elections in the Philippines and Indonesia (and elsewhere in Southeast Asia, and the world), for example, bring people with suitcases full of money, bags of rice, free t-shirts, etc., and it is a once-a-year boon to people who don't own anything and can hardly feed their families. So perhaps not so morally cut and dry as you like to think, living in a wealthy developed country and typing on your computer. I'm also not convinced the head of the World Bank is your best source for advice on morals, but hey -- you do you, although you might consider getting off your high horse, buddy. I think most people here are fed up with your toxicity.

But speaking of rules, Mexico last year passed laws limiting passengers to only one and no children allowed as passengers, with stricter helmet enforcement. These are, of course, not enforced strictly.

[Nachtderuntoten]

An acquaintance of mine ended up getting an angry cop on him and several of his friends one year when they rode their Vincents in Idaho with the headlights off. The funny thing is that according to the state law 49-905(2) 'Every motorcycle [...] shall be equipped with at least one (1) [...] head lamps [...]', but nowhere does it actually state that the headlight on a motorcycle must be lit during the day. And this supported by the Motorcycle Legal Foundation: https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/

Go figure, huh?

Some cops are just a55holes that want to mess with people on bikes. Some aren't -- I remember when I first got my 550K in WA state I didn't know I had to have my lights on. Cop pulled me over, told me to turn it on, and let me loose. Another time the spring on my rear brake had come off and the brake light wasn't coming on with just the rear brake. Cop pulled me over, told me, put the spring on, and away I went.

Lights were mandatory in WA and MA when I lived there, but not AZ -- which was lucky for me as I had a CB160 with a weak charging system.

** I should add that here in Mexico City there doesn't seem to be any rule to have your lights on -- plenty of people don't. But I don't know for sure, and since most cops don't even deal with bikes and people follow the "rules" such as they are pretty selectively, dunno if it would matter (until there was a cop looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it, but cars make such better targets).

Yes, i looked it up: both federal and state law, for the Federation of Mexican States and for the Federal State of Mexico, agree that yes, a motorcyclist must use a headlight during the day.

According to Article 168.II.c of the Transit Regulation on Highways and Bridges of Federal Jurisdiction', federal law dictates the following:
     Los conductores de bicicletas, triciclos, motocicletas, trimotos o cuatrimotos tendrán los derechos y obligaciones establecidos en este Reglamento, que sean congruentes con la naturaleza de los vehículos que conduzcan y observarán, además, las siguientes disposiciones:
          Tratándose de motocicletas, trimotos y cuatrimotos:
               Circular en todo tiempo con las luces encendidas
I.E. Drivers of motor- bicycles, tricycles, & quadricycles must have their lights on at all times.

This is seconded by Article 37.III.a of the 'Transit Regulation for the City of Mexico', which states:
     Los  conductores  y  ocupantes  de  los  vehículos  deben  de  cumplir  con  las  disposiciones  de seguridad indicadas en el presente artículo de acuerdo a la naturaleza propia de cada vehículo.
          Adicionalmente, los motociclistas deben:
               Circular todo tiempo con las luces traseras y delanteras encendidas
I.E. Drivers of motorcycles must have their lights on at all times.

The enforcement of these laws, however, probably falls more to, as you so aptly indicated, whether or not a 'cop' be 'looking for lunch money who thought a motorcycle rider might have it'. 
I have no idea, however, as to how many persons ride motorcycles their in Mexico City as a percentage of total traffic; but it's possible that, since motorcycles make up a smaller segment of the driving population, the local police therefor may be less inclined to enforcement* ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Artículo 168.II.c del Reglamento de Tránsito en Carreteras y Puentes de Jurisdicción Federal:
https://mexico.justia.com/recursos/transito/reglamento-de-transito-en-carreteras-y-puentes-de-jurisdiccion-federal/titulo-cuarto/capitulo-iii/#articulo-168
Artículo 37.III.a del Reglamento de Tránsito para la Ciudad de México:
https://mexico.justia.com/recursos/transito/reglamento-de-transito-ciudad-de-mexico/

*It's equally possible, however, that, since motorcycles may make up a smaller percentage of road-going traffic; that then the local police may be more inclined to enforcement, since motorcycle being rarer would be more likely to stick to mind... In the end, i have no clue about why enforcement may be lax.

Well there you go.

There are tons of motorcycles here in Mexico City, couldn't say what percentage of total vehicles on the road, but far more than in the US (but less than in, say, Vietnam or Indonesia). Most bikes here are small -- 150cc, and you can go to a department store and by local brands like Italica for around $1000 US and ride away -- and many are used for delivery services. Bikes must be more than 250cc to go on the ring road (periferico). But similar to places like Vietnam and Indonesia, people who can't afford cars ride motorcycles which is why I think cops mostly leave them alone -- they don't have the money to pay bribes that people who drive cars have. There are people with nice, new bigger bikes including BMWs and the occasional Ducati, as well as some Harleys, but those are a tiny fraction of bikes on the road. I have never seen another SOHC4 like my bikes the whole time I have been here.

Well, i completely spaced on that possibility--but it makes total sense nonetheless.

Huh, that's funny, too, that you've not seen a single other one. Has anyone ever expressed fascination or interest in your bikes like can happen here in the states?

[Nachtderuntoten]

In Thailand there is no law concerning a head light during the day.  On or off is Up-To-You.  What is shocking is the number of old, beat up scooters that are ridden at night with no headlight.  Very dangerous.

About 3 months ago I was traveling down a local, unlit small street  that is a quick short cut to get back to my home.  While turning into the narrow alleyway I did not see a small scooter (with no headlight on) and  I had to slam on the brakes and dropped my bike to the ground to avoid hitting him.  Scrapped up my hands and knees and one shoe got ripped off my foot and went airborne.

I do hope that this bike were not indeed the 750 you got recently..
How Is your bike (both bikes) by the way?

[carnivorous chicken]

Well, i completely spaced on that possibility--but it makes total sense nonetheless.

Huh, that's funny, too, that you've not seen a single other one. Has anyone ever expressed fascination or interest in your bikes like can happen here in the states?

Yes, absolutely, from catching people staring at stoplights to a few conversations in the Home Depot parking lot, or elsewhere.

There just aren't a lot of old bikes here, and there never were a lot of bikes over 200-250cc (maybe 350cc?) displacement. If someone bought a bike here in 1975, they would ride it to death, sell it to someone else who would resurrect it and ride it to death again, etc. Not like the US and other places, where we still find bikes from the '70s with 10,000 miles on them (or sometimes fewer, or more of course), where someone bought a bike as a lark, didn't like it, and stuck it in their basement for 35 years. I've seen a couple (maybe literally just two) bikes from the '80s including a Yamaha Radian, and there is a classic car dealer that occasionally has an old bike or two in his window (usually BMW, and I'm guessing they import from the US or somewhere as their prices are insane).