Author Topic: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??  (Read 1573 times)

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Offline M Schepis

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Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« on: August 12, 2025, 02:57:23 PM »
Decided to trepidatiously address the common top end oil leak, found some very interesting things worth showing but also trying to pick the collective experience any gracious members willing to offer insight.

Big surprise, sort of thinking this engine was previously massaged.. to put it kindly.

1) first photo shows the caps that are known as potential leak points, note no bond was applied and visible cracks

2) second photo, Cylinder head as removed, note only found 2 o-rings and 2 dowels, my understanding is that the k6 Cylinder head should have 8 additional dowel pins and rubber seals in an attempt to improve the sealing issue.

3) in the bottom of the picture the gasket shows that the 8 dowel, o-ring hole locations are not sized accordingly. I read that some gaskets are sufficient to not require these additional dowels and o-rings???

Measured and found the pistons to be sized for 836 (wisco)

Wondering what the PO did? Do I need to purchase the missing 8 dowels and o_rings? etc
Also found the cam chain tensioner guide broken at the two pinpoints?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2025, 04:40:58 PM by M Schepis »

Offline denward17

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2025, 03:27:03 PM »
Don't know about the seals and knock pins, but this sticky thread just above has some good ideas about leaks and where they can occur.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,107040.0.html

This diagram may help as well: (I chose 1976 year model)

https://www.southsoundhonda.com/--xpartsstream#/Honda_Powersports/CB750KA_(76)_750_FOUR%2c_JPN%2c_VIN%23_CB750-2540001_TO_CB750-2575894/CYLINDER/b3d05c73-22e7-4620-b018-132301d96b6e/4c58e85e-a368-46a2-ac0d-243e77d6065e/y



Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2025, 04:01:34 PM »
Yes, thank you I used the wrong term, items 2,3 are what are missing: the knock pins p/n.12116300000 and bolt packing p/n.12115300000. My model is indeed a 1976 k6.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2025, 06:54:07 PM »
It seems pretty clear that your rubber pucks were the major leak point.  No where does Honda specify to use sealant on them, nor did Honda from the factory, nor does Clymer or Haines manual.  Sealant here is an extra failsafe for a seal that often fails.  Also, all the earlier than K6 750's were leak free without using the extra 8 knockpins and packings.  Last time I put together a K6, however, I went ahead and just used them and it is still leak free after tens of thousands of miles...but back then you could still get OEM head gasket with all the proper sized holes.  I don't think anyone makes an 836 sized head gasket with provisions for the knockpins and packings.  Some have modified the holes successfully.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2025, 08:27:19 PM »
I'd bet $5 the oil leak came from the 2 O-rings at the back of the cylinders where oil is fed upward to the head. Those O-rings must be oversized (as in, extra thick) to seal with head gaskets made after 1996 because they are all 0.2mm (at least) thicker than the OEM ones. The OEM setup used 2.4mm thick O-rings there, and I send out the 2.6mm O-rings (that will stop the leak) to anyone who wants an oil-leak-free rebuild: PM me your address?
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Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2025, 07:49:39 AM »
I've been trying to source a head gasket for 836 bore, seems CycleX has one with and without the bigger oil drain holes. I guess my question is, can I use the smaller hole gasket and eliminate the need to source all the missing tall o-rings and dowels? Either way, would not be a problem I would just follow what has worked in the past.
On a side note: the picture below shows the broken cam chain guide, fortunately none of the pieces made there way to potentially damaging areas in the engine. Any thoughts on why this part may have failed in this way...perhaps brittleness?

Offline bryanj

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2025, 08:21:16 AM »
Badly or non adjusted cam chain in the past
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Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2025, 08:37:45 AM »
Yes, that was one of the things I did as soon as I got the bike but I guess it was too late?

Offline willbird

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2025, 09:02:55 AM »
Yes, that was one of the things I did as soon as I got the bike but I guess it was too late?

Well the plastic is going on 50 years old at this point maybe ?? Cycle showed some cam chain tension wheels from arms they took apart to rebuilt and the sprocket on nearly all of them was bad.
https://www.cyclexchange.net/Cam%20Chain%20and%20Primary%20Tensioners/Old%20Tensioners%201.jpg

https://www.cyclexchange.net/Cam%20Chain%20and%20Primary%20Tensioners/Old%20Tensioners%202.jpg

https://www.cyclexchange.net/cam%20chain%20rollers%20small.jpg


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Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2025, 10:18:25 AM »
Wow, those are really bad, mine seems decent compared to those!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2025, 12:02:22 PM »
Wow, those are really bad, mine seems decent compared to those!

Yeah, yours looks typical for 10k miles. Honda still offers them at my last purchase. The ones from PartsNmore (Ontario) are OK, so long as you make sure the swing pivot is free (or else smooth it down with some fine emery paper or a fine file or such): they had/have some where the hole is punched too small by a tiny bit and it makes the pivot stick, plus the bearing itself is burred and jams it. This can cause self-destructing parts, so they need to be corrected before using. Honda's is still the best bet, but they are not perfect: I have received ones where the roller in the arm was jammed and wouldn't turn - and they wouldn't take it back - but that was in 2006.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2025, 12:56:28 PM »
So, I realize my next question can really only be answered by me but I thought I'd ask others based on their experience. I have the engine on a stand, rotated it to access the oil pump, measured the distance from housing to primary drive chain tensioner, 69.5mm. I realize the service limit is 70mm. I'm debating whether I should split the cases and replace the main chain and tensioner. I don't currently have another reason to open the cases as I'm not intending on replacing pistons etc. ???
« Last Edit: August 14, 2025, 04:47:03 AM by M Schepis »

Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2025, 12:05:34 PM »
Decision made! Now I need to determine if I can reassemble replacing the main drive chain only or if it will need bearing. May need some help with this evaluation.

Offline denward17

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2025, 01:06:12 PM »
I know it depends on many factors, but if I was this far, and there is any doubt, I would replace bearings, assuming you can find them.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2025, 01:21:18 PM »
If you want to replace those grooved bearing you'll have to get them from CMSNL or possible David Silver Spares. They are grooved to JIS spec, and no one makes them today. The ISO groove spec replaced them in most machinery around 1996: the ISO grooves are closer to the center of the bearing and are a different depth.

This said: in all the 750 engines I've rebuilt (so many now I've lost count), I've only replaced a handful of those. Almost all those I replaced were rusted, while the ones in my own engine had 131,000 miles on them and showed a little wear, so I did.

In your engine, given the unusual amount of drive chain wear in the few miles it has, I'd surmise that it had poor oil and/or very long oil-change intervals before you got it. That's what causes the chain wear. The bearings are tougher than the chains, though. ;)
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2025, 03:12:31 PM »
Yes I tending to agree, there is marking but i can't really see anything concerning, I'll post some better pictures but I was leaning in that direction.

Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2025, 03:17:13 PM »
The unexpected upon close inspection... How can this have occurred and what to do next? I'm hoping this can be welded, thoughts?

Offline scottly

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2025, 04:32:10 PM »
The bike probably threw a drive chain, which was fairly common. Yes, it can be welded, once you dig out all the JB weld. If the case wasn't already split, I wouldn't worry about it, but since it's apart you might want to get it welded.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2025, 08:10:10 PM »
Put the cases together and make sure there is enough mating surface in that area to accept sealant this next time around, so it won't leak there. It needs at least 2mm of face-to-face meeting surface to seal it. If it looks like the broken piece can be removed, then remove it and remove the goo holding it together, then have a good welder reweld it back into place. The mating surface must be at the same level as the rest of the lower case, within 0.001", for a good seal on reassembly. The broken piece can possibly sit slightly lower, and then you will need to apply something like JB Weld to the gap after reassembly, lest it weep oil.

While it is possible to fully remove the broken piece and weld it in, then resurface the top for a perfect fit again (I've done it several times) it is expensive to do it. This is usually reserved for rare, expensive engines like the sandcast 750s or those with high $$ work done elsewhere in them.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
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Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2025, 04:40:59 AM »
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll thoroughly clean the area to see what the next steps are. One concern with welding is distortion. Frustrating step back.
Update: spoke to a very knowledgeable welder engine builder, he agreed that welding aluminum requires very high heat that might cause more trouble than its worth. He suggested to thoroughly clean the area reseal on the outside and leave the mating surfaces undisturbed. His thinking was if it wasn't leaking then the outside surface repair is probably going to be fine?

 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2025, 09:40:57 AM by M Schepis »

Offline MRieck

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2025, 08:40:22 AM »
How about a new/used set of cases?
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Offline M Schepis

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2025, 11:10:26 AM »
I suppose that can be an option, a lot to consider on that option. Thanks

Offline scottly

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2025, 01:27:58 PM »
You could also just leave it. It's not a structural issue, and as long as it doesn't leak it's not a problem. ;)
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2025, 08:24:47 PM »
One concern with welding is distortion.
 
Update: spoke to a very knowledgeable welder engine builder, he agreed that welding aluminum requires very high heat that might cause more trouble than its worth. He suggested to thoroughly clean the area reseal on the outside and leave the mating surfaces undisturbed. His thinking was if it wasn't leaking then the outside surface repair is probably going to be fine?

His point is well taken, and largely correct. When I had a badly-broken sandcast K0 case (note: the sandcast/K0 web is only about 60% as thick in this particular area: Honda made them much stronger here after approximately 3/1970 builds, and added a 3rd bolt, like yours has, after that) the biggest trouble we had with it was the heat applied in order to secure a good weld: this caused the area near the sprocket bearing to sag a little (about 0.010") so I had to have it progressively welded up, milled back, welded up and milled back 3x to make the seal good and the hole for the final-drive bearing round again (all that stuff took much setup time and machining).

Yours isn't anywhere nearly as bad as that one was, and your case is thicker and stronger there, too (all of them after 9/70 got thicker).

To be explicit, what would happen there might go like this:
1. The broken piece needed to be realigned by cleaning all the gunk and JB Weld (or whatever sealant was used) from the areas of the repaired cracks. This might (in 2 of mine, did) cause the broken 'square-ish' piece to come fully loose, which actually helped in one case.
2. The ragged edges (particularly at the sealing surface of the case) need to be cleaned away, usually done by hand with files and such, or more carefully with grinders of one sort or another. There will then be a small gap all around the 3 sides of the part that is broken out.
3. The part is replaced with the cases bolted together (using the crankshaft bolts at torque, and the smaller ones in the broken area, at 90-100 in-lbs) and tack-welded into place.
4. The cases are separated and the gaps welded in, and any clearancing needed between the welds and the transmission gears nearby needs to be done, also with small hand grinders.
5. Hondabond is applied to the resulting cases and they are fully bolted & torqued together (no shafts need be in place for this) and then the cases are separated to study how well the area is sealed. If the sealant at the damage site is not more than 0.5mm thick it will hold oil adequately: use Permatex #2 at that site if it is noticeably thicker there than elsewhere, and Hondabond for the rest of the case mating surfaces.

That's how I/we've repaired 3 of these, 2 being sandcasts and one being a late K1 (similar in web thickness to yours), and all worked out fine.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline scottly

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Re: Cb750 K6 Tear-down...Questions??
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2025, 08:52:04 PM »
It looks there are gaps in the crack on the inside where the JB weld didn't fill. I would clean the gaps with acetone, and then fill with JB, with the case propped up so the crack is horizontal. Place a piece of tape over the sealing surface so the JB is flush, then after it sets if any sticks up above the surface, sand or file it down to flush.
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