Topic: Transmission feel like its slipping and catching in first gear

[scottly]

This started after an oil pump problem on the pressure side, correct?

[HondaMan]

I know of one in Gammaflat's K6 that Honda assembled the one by C2 backward. His finally could fall into 2nd from the sidestand if leaned over extra-far and the engine was also hot.
Did Ken's shop do one that way?

My trans went into gear just leaning on the sidestand with a stone cold engine, cranking the motor with the starter. There were two snap-rings out of their grooves when I took it apart for the first time since it left Japan.
The undercut trans Ken sent to a member was assembled with the snap-rings installed incorrectly, which destroyed the trans and damaged the case. The member was not only out the trans he sent to be modified and the cost of undercutting, he had to buy a replacement trans. Ken didn't stand behind his work..

That's an astounding action by Ken, considering all the things I've done with his parts in years past. I haven't had any 'troubles', though, with his stuff: it always solved a particular problem I was dealing with at the time.

[bryanj]

Why would Ken stand on a warrantee unless the assembly was done by him? The circlip correct fittment is down to the builder and if i was supplying heavily modified parts to some one i would have to make the assumption that they knew what they were doing

[newday777]

The engine number is on the top of the case, behind the #1 cylinder. I don't recall the cutoff #, only that the K7 engine I have is above it.

The change was from Engine SN 2434657(late K6)

[scottly]

Why would Ken stand on a warrantee unless the assembly was done by him?

The assembly was done at cycle x, and shipped as ready to install.

[bryanj]

That is different,, and also not clear at start of post

[Split7]

This started after an oil pump problem on the pressure side, correct?

Kinda. I fixed the pump. And was riding it and it was fine and then one day it just started happening . But yes it did loose pressure at one point and damaged a cam tower.

[Split7]

By the way, I have a bunch of parts from Cycle X in my motor, like pistons and Cam and some other random things and everything I’ve ever got from them has been really solid. He has talked to me several times on the phone and helped me through problems in the past, and offered to actually look at my transmission for free and diagnosed the problem. I’m having now. which is pretty cool.  so personally I think Cycle X is solid. I mean, have you seen a shop over there? Check out his Facebook page. That place is like Heaven man it has every part of imaginable  plus some. pretty impressive.

[HondaMan]

Why would Ken stand on a warrantee unless the assembly was done by him? The circlip correct fittment is down to the builder and if i was supplying heavily modified parts to some one i would have to make the assumption that they knew what they were doing

I only wish Honda's techs had been 100%, too: many of us remember Gammaflat's late 750 (K5 or K6) that was trying to drop itself into 1st gear when running (warming up) on the sidestand while he was getting ready to go riding. Honda was the one who put the circlip in his backward: it was a virgin engine.

[bryanj]

I think its McGintys law that says if something can be physical fitted backwards some idiot some where will do it!

There was a story long ago about an early Rolls Royce jet where the turbine and compressor were the same sixe untill a rotating element was fitted backwards and melted----no idea if it was true

[scottly]

By the way, I have a bunch of parts from Cycle X in my motor, like pistons and Cam and some other random things and everything I’ve ever got from them has been really solid. He has talked to me several times on the phone and helped me through problems in the past, and offered to actually look at my transmission for free and diagnosed the problem. I’m having now. which is pretty cool.  so personally I think Cycle X is solid. I mean, have you seen a shop over there? Check out his Facebook page. That place is like Heaven man it has every part of imaginable  plus some. pretty impressive.

Was the shift drum from cycle x assembled incorrectly?

[Don R]

 When I got the K1 Rat Race together it went into first gear every time I tried to kick start it. It doesn't have a center stand either so that was getting interesting. The thing that fixed it was tightening the loose shift selector stud. I was lucky.

[Split7]

By the way, I have a bunch of parts from Cycle X in my motor, like pistons and Cam and some other random things and everything I’ve ever got from them has been really solid. He has talked to me several times on the phone and helped me through problems in the past, and offered to actually look at my transmission for free and diagnosed the problem. I’m having now. which is pretty cool.  so personally I think Cycle X is solid. I mean, have you seen a shop over there? Check out his Facebook page. That place is like Heaven man it has every part of imaginable  plus some. pretty impressive.

Was the shift drum from cycle x assembled incorrectly?

Na I spoke with him a couple times and he said it will be good. So I believe him

[Split7]

Do these holes look warn to you? I have a feeling this is where my problem is but not 100% sure.

[scottly]

Worn "holes" are not usually an issue as much as the dogs, but that relates to popping out of gear under high loads, not your issue with first gear. Please post some more pics of the trans.
BTW, unless there is something wrong with the original drum I would use it.

[scottly]

Do these holes look warn to you? I have a feeling this is where my problem is but not 100% sure.

That looks kind of like Gamma's gear from the thread about the snap rings I linked at the start of this thread?

[Split7]

Worn "holes" are not usually an issue as much as the dogs, but that relates to popping out of gear under high loads, not your issue with first gear. Please post some more pics of the trans.
BTW, unless there is something wrong with the original drum I would use it.

Actually, no I think that is my issue. Under high load first gear, pops out and in real quick. And all the other gears in the first gear connection looked to be good and really not worn at all   This one spot looks worn to me and maybe it’s possibly I’m still gonna causing the popping in and  out at this connection.

And I put the new shift fork and drum in and I can already tell it’s gonna shift so much smoother. It’s like a night and day difference and there’s some nubs on the old shift drum that look worn. Also the pins on my old drum are more crooked than the new one. These could’ve been potentially an issue as well so I’m gonna go with a new one.

Also I found significant wear on one shift Fork. Not sure why my guy didn’t say anything about that, but it looks pretty bad to me.

[scottly]

Yeah, I'd say that fork is well past it's expiration date.

[Split7]

Yeah, I'd say that fork is well past it's expiration date.

Haha absolutely

[HondaMan]

Yikes! That is one bent fork!
The word "cataclysm event" comes to mind?

[Split7]

Yikes! That is one bent fork!
The word "cataclysm event" comes to mind?

It’s the R fork. I measured it and it’s way under spec. And it directly pushes first into gear. I feel fairly confident that this is my problem. What do you think, Honda man?

[scottly]

Is it bent, or just severely worn? Slip the fork on the shaft, and check with a square.

[Split7]

Is it bent, or just severely worn? Slip the fork on the shaft, and check with a square.

Ya it looks bent a bit outward from the worn side. I’m thinking this could definitely cause poor engagement. 

[HondaMan]

Yikes! That is one bent fork!
The word "cataclysm event" comes to mind?

It’s the R fork. I measured it and it’s way under spec. And it directly pushes first into gear. I feel fairly confident that this is my problem. What do you think, Honda man?

Does it have an "R" on it? The "R" fork in your picture above is at the top of the picture. This one should be the "L" fork (closest to the left side of the engine)? It's the one that gets bent if the bike falls over on its left side and the lever hits something on the way down. It is responsible for engaging gears 1-N-2.

[scottly]

Also I found significant wear on one shift Fork. Not sure why my guy didn’t say anything about that, but it looks pretty bad to me.

Was there any fresh metal debris in the oil pan? If the fork was that bad the last time it was apart, maybe you should check the snap rings yourself?