Topic: The economic of restorations

[Bristledisk]

I enjoyed restoring my CB400F a few years ago and I'm equally enjoying restoring my 1973 CB350F.

However the difference now is that my CB400F cost about C$5000 to restore including the initial cost of the bike and restoration costs and is worth about C$6000.

Seven years later the CB350F has cost me a similar amount to buy and restore (C$5500) but I've recently seen 2 good condition CB350Fs for sale in my area for less than C$3000.

I do this as a hobby and relaxation but it does make you want to hang on to the restored bike rather than sell it straightaway which in turn means you feel reluctant to start a new project.

[Dunk]

As with restoring anything, doing it full and proper you're lucky to break even on cost vs resale value of just parts and materials. The exception is for rare and desirable vehicles, things like low production numbers matching big block 4 speed cars, maybe in the vintage Honda world that would include sandcast CB750s. Kawasaki H2s seem to have taken off in value, I'm guessing there were not as many made as comparable Hondas.

If doing it as a money making endeavor the money is in doing work people don't want to do or don't have time for on vehicles they already own. Maybe there could be money made as a honest or reputable flipper doing rider quality jobs, buy very cheap that has been sitting and get back to serviceable condition. Could be a decent retirement gig to keep busy with fun projects and sell for affordable prices to people who don't want to pay top dollar for a fully restored vehicle but also don't want to do it themselves.

I just get vehicles I like and do whatever they need with no intention of selling. Easy to eat the cost to have something you like that you can amortize the cost over decades, gets cheaper per mile or year the longer you own it.

[Mikey G.]

That's a big reason I never keep track of how much I spend on a bike.  I buy the bikes I do because I like them, and I restore them because I like riding something that looks clean and new.

I've spent more on all of my bikes than I could ever get out of selling them, and I'm okay with that.  If I do happen to sell one for a new project (which I have), I'm fully aware that's just covering the cost of getting my foot in the door, not the entire restoration that follows.

[bryanj]

The 350 never went global unlike the 400 and the 400 is more sought after so tends to sell better/costlier.

[denward17]

I've restored a couple, (750/550) and kept up with expenses in a spreadsheet.

These look pretty good, but still not perfect, not Concours level.

I have way more in these bikes than I could recover.  I kept up with everything that I needed to get the jobs complete (tools, cleaning supplies, paint, things like evaporust, simple green, etc.)

But, as someone who recently retired, I was looking for a keep me busy hobby, and I found something I love to do.  I use to ride bikes/race bikes about 40 years ago so I decided to get back on one.

Am I looking for a 3rd bike?  I will buy one if the right project comes along, but am being more discerning this time around.

[Kelly E]

My buddy and I have done around 30 bikes since 2016. We have made our money back on all but one bike. We always tried to buy bikes in the $500 to $600 range but several bikes were more because they are keepers. We spent around $1500 to $3500 on the parts and supplies. The easiest flips were starter bikes. Our pay rate for the work was probably under 25 cents per hour but we have lots of fun.

The best part of the whole thing is the bikes we acquired along the way. We had some incredible luck with some of the bikes. We were caller 20 for the 84' 14k mile Honda Interceptor 1000 that had been parked since '88 but still managed to get it. We got a 16k mile 75' CB 400-4 and an 83' CB 1100F for free.

We haven't done much lately due to health issues but the CB 1100F is waiting patiently for resurrection.

[Don R]

 This is for paid restoration of cars, but some factors apply. A real eye opener.

[HondaMan]

IMHO: restoration is certainly in the heart of the owner. I've restored 750s for as little as $1500 (1990s $$) and for as much as $15k on just the engine alone (2015 $$), the latter taking all honors at its showing in 2016. I won't even go into the 750 sandcast restos here...

I've ridden mine for more than 50 years since brand new (and a gift from Honda at the time), and in that time have spent less for it than any of my cars, ever.
Again IMHO: there isn't any other bike I've seen that is worth it?

The SOHC4, and especially the 750, changed biking society to be what we all know it to be now. Every "new" bike comparison video I see seems to re-declare it.

[rotortiller]

I do this as a hobby and relaxation but it does make you want to hang on to the restored bike rather than sell it straightaway which in turn means you feel reluctant to start a new project.

Give your head a shake, just buy another bike, keep what you have and build an empire.

[PeWe]

One cause of higher cost can be not good enough to put together when apart
but not bad enough to take it apart.
Engine is one. Why reuse semi bad parts? It cost to take it apart again in oil, gaskets and seals.

Too cheap bikes are most likely the most expensive to restore when almost everything is bad in need of replacements.

[seanbarney41]

overall, the vintage bike market is down from a high just before and during covid.  The really rare and desireable stuff is not affected as much as some of the more mundane stuff.  Also, collectable generation shift going on right now too.  As an example go ahead and try to afford a nice original 2003-2004 Kawasaki 636...
Also pretty scary economy right now looking at the future values of any internal combustion vehicle...or whether there is even gonna be a middle class left in America in 10 years.

[BomberMann650]

Glad i sold the 75 when I did.  The buyer appreciated that it was s turn key road going machine with a shelf full of extras.  Helped pay for the race bike.
The Norton, however - that one would have been much more affordable if the parts could have been acquired via b2b dealer sales (20-25% off retail).  The bike itself was a dream.  Couldn't afford to do that again right now.

Funny aside, someones teenager asked how much it cost to put together the race bike.  Told the lad the welder cost $1000, then about 1,500 hours into labor.  (At current shop rates thats nearly a quarter million ducks)

[kyle750]

Currently restoring a CB750 and CB550 and I have already bought 100s of parts - vintage original, NOS Honda, and aftermarket replacements.  Quality and price varies widely and it takes patience and a keen eye to keep the total restoration price to a reasonable level.  I keep track of all costs on a spreadsheet and it is truly shocking what I have already spent and I still have a long way to go.  But I am doing this for fun and not as an investment.  I am enjoying watching the transformation from rusting in the jungle neglected junk to shiney rideable machines. I have good people helping with the labor intensive work like sanding and refinishing so that helps to keep the total costs reasonable.   I can't even imagine what shop rates are in the USA. 

Stocks and bonds are good investments - old vintage Hondas are black holes where money is sucked in and never to be seen again. 

[Stev-o]

Over the years, I've restored many bikes and sold quite a few, used the proceeds to buy other bikes and/or parts.  I never kept track of expenses but I'm sure not much, if any profit was made, that was not the point.  However, I have built up a nice stable of bikes that I am proud of and my wife wants me to sell!  Resist.

[Mark1976]

Over the years, I've restored many bikes and sold quite a few, used the proceeds to buy other bikes and/or parts.  I never kept track of expenses but I'm sure not much, if any profit was made, that was not the point.  However, I have built up a nice stable of bikes that I am proud of and my wife wants me to sell!  Resist.

  I'm familiar with this situation, on occasion I'll remind her that I owned 5 when we met...

[MauiK3]

One way to screw up a good hobby is to try and make money with it. I do woodworking and occasionally do a piece for money. It's never complex and the customer just needs some help, when that happens I can actually make a little cash. Bikes? Not much money to be made there unless you stumble on a unicorn and then why sell it? If I owned the CB750 prototype I would just keep it. Otherwise, just have fun with bikes you like.

[carnivorous chicken]

One way to screw up a good hobby is to try and make money with it. I do woodworking and occasionally do a piece for money. It's never complex and the customer just needs some help, when that happens I can actually make a little cash. Bikes? Not much money to be made there unless you stumble on a unicorn and then why sell it? If I owned the CB750 prototype I would just keep it. Otherwise, just have fun with bikes you like.

This. Instead of restoring I bought old bikes that had been sitting, got them up and running and decent looking, and passed them on -- often to friends -- but as decent looking riders not museum pieces. The 550F I have now was in such nice shape that I wanted to return it to stock and brighten it up some, so "restored" in the sense of using stock hardware and bringing back the airbox, but not trying to have something I'd be afraid to ride.

[Magpie]

Economics? For me, I don't keep an account of what I spend on a bike resurrection. I do it for the satisfaction of doing it. I love standing back from a "finished" project and hear it run. I've been asked many times what a bike might be worth, my answer always is that it's worthless because I don't sell any of them. I guess I'm a hoarder. There's a couple missing from the photo. Plus a few DOHC F's. And a CBX. I have a problem. 

[kyle750]

^ ^ ^ Amazing ^ ^ ^

I don't see a hoarding problem but an incredible collection of beautiful bikes and a man who takes great pride in his work

Stunning Bikes and whenever I am tempted to rescue another Honda CB I will use this photo as inspiration!

[CycleRanger]

I try to make sure I end up with a bike that's worth at least what I have into it, cash-wise.
Although I don't keep track of it to the penny.

[rotortiller]

Magpie, that's a fine herd. Do not let anyone tell you that you have a problem. You have a fine hobby and simply keep your handy work to play with, that's healthy.

rt

[Kelly E]

The bikes we acquired along the way is the best part of resurrecting. Although the satisfaction of putting a first time rider on a starter bike we've made sure will be safe and reliable while they really learn to ride is a close second. The smile on their face is is worth more than money.

[kyle750]

How much real enjoyment can you get from a Stock or a Bond?

[Ozzybud]

+1  on being a Hoarder. Luckily I have my other half convinced that my bikes and cars are part of my "diversified portfolio" . My stocks,IRA, and 401K is great but you can't drive or ride them around the block.
I have OCD and Perfecti onism to a fault. Trying to get my bikes as original and clean as possible. Knowing it's only a goal. Buying NOS parts for dumb money.
I have taught myself to do most everything on my bikes like re-facing gauges, re-spoking rims ,painting and the like.
I retired 6 years ago from the Boeing company. My motto to live by now is i only do work for friends for fun and for free.
When I'm no longer able to ride,  someone's going to get some nice bikes and cars

[rotortiller]

My stocks,IRA, and 401K is great but you can't drive or ride them around the block.

There are numerous people in the hobby treating antique investments as their retirement vehicle. A self managed portfolio of love has its advantages however liquidation might prove difficult when funds are needed; unless it's for gasoline lol.

[Ozzybud]

My stocks,IRA, and 401K is great but you can't drive or ride them around the block.

There are numerous people in the hobby treating antique investments as their retirement vehicle. A self managed portfolio of love has its advantages however liquidation might prove difficult when funds are needed; unless it's for gasoline lol.

The way high end collectable bikes and cars sell on BAT. I believe liquidating will not be a problem.. I will likely gift most of them to friends.
Not sure what a Retirement Vehicle is ? Mine are purely for fun and enjoyment in my golden years.
I just happen to have a spouse that is  all in and supports my hobby.

[MauiK3]

Beautiful collections! You guys are impressive!!
I too am also lucky in that my bride of 48 years enjoys our rides around the island.
It's a great hobby.

[Stev-o]

I too am also lucky in that my bride of 48 years enjoys our rides around the island.

Hey Maui...you live in one of the most beautiful places on the planet but I dont recall seeing any pics of your bike "on the road"?

[BenelliSEI]

At one point I had +12 Honda cb550/750’s in my shop. Four or five of the fully restored bikes were just bundled up, in the back, collecting dust. In the past few years I’ve sold the ‘70 cb750K, 75 cb750F, ‘76 cb750K, ‘77 and ‘78 cb750K’s (and the Benelli SEI). I priced each one of them at easily 2 or 3X the market around here. Lot’s of stupid comments, but eventually someone walked in and said “I’ll take it!”. I miss the bikes and have some regrets, but that is more than offset by seeing them being ridden, back on the road, with people that appreciate them (and my efforts).

I don’t make a living at this, but I don’t lose any money on them either. The S/C is starting to annoy me just sitting there. It may well be next.

[Nasher]

I've spent all my money on women and motorbikes,  apart from a little bit I frittered away

Always had bikes, always customised them - mostly cafe racers

Once retired  bought a run down Honda K4 race bike, I enjoyed restoring it. 2 days after completion I took it to the Classic TT on the Isle of Man and thrashed it around the TT course. (I've been going to the TT races since 1976).

Shortly afterwards, I  was given the opportunity to ride it around the Crystal Palace circuit in south east London, the place I first watched motorcycle racing in 1959.

11 years on, I still have it and take it across to the Isle of Man, thrash it over and around the Brecon Beacons in Wales
Also attended a few shows and won some awrds awards

Money alone can't buy those experiences, so I don't care what it costs or what it's worth!


I've done the same with a 1974 TZ Yamaha and recently completed a replica of Mike Hailwood’s 1967 Senior TT winning Honda RC181. It took 2 years to build and when at the Classic TT this year,  somebody asked what is was worth, my reply was; I haven't a clue, but if you offered me £25,000 ($34,000) for it I'd turn it down, because it means more to me than money

[jlh3rd]

"  somebody asked what is was worth, my reply was; I haven't a clue, but if you offered me £25,000 ($34,000) for it I'd turn it down, because it means more to me than money"

I understand.
That's how I feel about my mint, unrestored bike. The satisfaction I get showing and talking to those interested and amazed at a 50 year old piece of Japanese history is priceless. I do not think there  is another one out there. Too much enjoyment in that.