Topic: World Superbike, 2007

[nickjtc]

Hmmmm. An interesting day of racing in Spain. I'd like to see Biaggi do it, but if things continue as they are (mechanical problems notwithstanding) I think Toseland should win.

The good thing is that you cannot count any of them out. Gotta love the level playing field when it comes to tyres!

The next few races will see if Xaus is actually a contender this year.

[xtalon]

Toseland looks like Corser of old... smooth, confident and very consistent... not to mention probably the fittest guy in the paddock.  He wouldn't have been my choice had you asked this prior to the season starting (Bayless would have been the choice), but 4 races in and Toseland is looking very tough and is my choice for World Champion.

Biaggi has been impressive on the Suzuki. Even when he finished back in 8th today in the first race... consider that were his teammate finished (15th).  He then comes back and finishes 2nd (possibly could have been 1st with another lap) and his teammate finished 13th.

Bayless will fight them tooth and nail, but how's Ducati's arguement going to stand up that they need the 1098 or 1200cc to compete if he wins the World Championship.  The conspiracy theorist in me says Ducati will take a dive in 2007 to gain larger capacity for 2008.  Just kidding.  Ducati's 'we're taking our ball and going home' and some political whine, women and song... and lira will win the arguement.  Again, just kidding... maybe 

Corser looks like he is struggling a bit to come to grips w/ the Yami.  Haga on the other hand, knows the old girl well and is putting it to good use.  I love to watch him race!  The guy is always exciting!  He is who I want to win the Championship, but I'm not putting my money one him (maybe next year).

1. Toseland
2.  Biaggi
3.  Bayless
4.  Haga
5.  Corser

--xTalon

[nickjtc]

Good points, all. Hadn't thought about the whole 'Ducati wanting to up the twin cylinder capacity thing'. You make an interesting point though. Maybe Troy Bayliss will be encouraged to 'take it easy and recover slowly' from his injuries, thereby saving Ducati face if he isn't near the podium. Then they will have more leverage to have the displacement upped next year.

Fortunately having the Pirelli control tyres keeps everyone honest on the track.

[ieism]

Not only do I think Toseland will win superbikes by a big margin this year, I further predict Ten Cate Honda will start a Moto GP team in 2008 with JT riding their first bike. Cris Vermeulen will ride the second bike, but he will be replaced mid-season by an unknown Japanese wonderboy. They will announce an engine-lease deal with Honda in Juli, similar to Kenny Roberts' team. They will have their first podium finish in the rain at the Brno GP in august 2008.

[xtalon]

Not only do I think Toseland will win superbikes by a big margin this year, I further predict Ten Cate Honda will start a Moto GP team in 2008 with JT riding their first bike. Cris Vermeulen will ride the second bike, but he will be replaced mid-season by an unknown Japanese wonderboy. They will announce an engine-lease deal with Honda in Juli, similar to Kenny Roberts' team. They will have their first podium finish in the rain at the Brno GP in august 2008.

Wow, talk about going out on a limb.  Those are some pretty 'specific' predictions.  Not sure I understand the 'engine lease' deal... Whose chassis would they put it in?  KR's team has it's on chassis.  Do you mean a bike lease like the other non-factory teams?

'First podium finish in the rain'...  Wow, you even predict the weather.  That's ballsy!   

Can you give me the lotto numbers for this week?  Just messing with ya, but you must have a crystal ball or something to make such specific predictions!   

--xTalon

--xTalon

[ieism]

Well ok, maybe not all these predictions may happen exactly as I said. It may snow in Brno. 

But I really do think Ten Cate will have a go at MotoGP.
Consider this:
Ten Cate run 2 teams;  600cc in Supersport,  and 1000cc in WSB. They have said they've considered MotoGP as their next step.
With the MotoGP bikes back to 800cc, the step from WSB to MotoGP is getting smaller. MotoGP bikes lost a lot of power with the change to 2007 regulations.
The top MotoGP teams don't give numbers, but most think they make over 210 hp now. The Ten Cate Honda makes more than 220 hp, so the chassis shouldn't need that much modification. The supension, rearswingarm and subframe are pretty much prototype on WSB's anyway. 
The minimum weightlimit for MotoGP stayed the same as last year's 990cc's (I think the RC 212V HONDA weighs about 150 kg. now). The WSB are around 165kg I think.  So why is a Superbike 2 seconds slower at most tracks when it's not that much heavier, and more powerfull than a MotoGP? Is it all down to the chassis?
In my opinion the biggest difference are the tires. MotoGp's electronics are also more advanced, as are the brakes (carbon).

Oh, and about the weather prediction....I can't predict weather, but I can make it rain. All I have to do is get on my bike, and it starts to pour down immediately. 
The lotto numbers for this week are 6, 11, 29, 30, 41. But I can't tell you were exactly these numbers will fall. Could be London, Montreal or Stockholm.

[xtalon]

Well ok, maybe not all these predictions may happen exactly as I said. It may snow in Brno. 

But I really do think Ten Cate will have a go at MotoGP.
Consider this:
Ten Cate run 2 teams;  600cc in Supersport,  and 1000cc in WSB. They have said they've considered MotoGP as their next step.
With the MotoGP bikes back to 800cc, the step from WSB to MotoGP is getting smaller. MotoGP bikes lost a lot of power with the change to 2007 regulations.
The top MotoGP teams don't give numbers, but most think they make over 210 hp now. The Ten Cate Honda makes more than 220 hp, so the chassis shouldn't need that much modification. The supension, rearswingarm and subframe are pretty much prototype on WSB's anyway. 
The minimum weightlimit for MotoGP stayed the same as last year's 990cc's (I think the RC 212V HONDA weighs about 150 kg. now). The WSB are around 165kg I think.  So why is a Superbike 2 seconds slower at most tracks when it's not that much heavier, and more powerfull than a MotoGP? Is it all down to the chassis?
In my opinion the biggest difference are the tires. MotoGp's electronics are also more advanced, as are the brakes (carbon).

Oh, and about the weather prediction....I can't predict weather, but I can make it rain. All I have to do is get on my bike, and it starts to pour down immediately. 
The lotto numbers for this week are 6, 11, 29, 30, 41. But I can't tell you were exactly these numbers will fall. Could be London, Montreal or Stockholm.

Ten Kate is a great team and I think they could do I good job in MotoGP, but they have a 'great' thing going in WSBK right now (especially if they win the World Championship which looks highly likely) and MotoGP has not been very kind to satellite teams as of late due to money and politics.

I'm not sure how much power MotoGP bikes have lost because the new bikes are beating old lap records already.

If Ten Kate were to use their own chassis, they would have to build it from scratch.  MotoGP is 100% pure prototype and the rules state that the bikes cannot share any component from current production bikes.  This is what makes them so much faster than WSBK.  Motogp is purebred racebike developed solely for that purpose.  WSBK are racebikes built around current production bikes.

Thanks for the lotto numbers and the enthusiasm!

--xTalon

[CrisPDuk]

If Ten Kate do go into MotoGP, which I personally doubt, it will be as a Honda satellite team, definitely behind Gresini and possibly LCR in the pecking order for bits.

They have neither the staff nor the technology to develop and build their own chassis. No offence, but the idea that a fireblade chassis (designed for an in-line four remember) can just be adapted to accept an RC212V and be even close to competitive is frankly laughable.

As for rain at Brno, it's hardly likely

In answer to your question about the difference in pace, the answer is the sum of a combination of things; Superbikes are 10% heavier than MotoGP bikes, they don't have the brakes, both of which have a significant effect on tyre wear. and most importantly their chassis' are no where near as 'tuneable'.

[ieism]

We'll see......I have a feeling about this one, and I look a bit like Harry Potter when I'm drunk. 

But the difference in speed between WSB and MotoGP is not as great as you guys think, esspecially this year. On some tracks Superbikes are outpacing the slower MotoGp bikes already.

here's a piece of a Dutch article i've tried to translate, just so you know i'm not making all of this up

I heard rumours about Ten Kate's MotoGP plans at the last superbike race at Assen. Since then they've convirmed that they were seriously considering it.
Teammanager Ronald ten Kate confirmed to a local newspaper that the rumour is more than just a rumour, they are very serious about this and are looking into how realistic the tranfer really is. So far it's looks promising.
Ten kate was told by everybody that it takes 14million Euro to run a 2-bike team in motogp, but according to the firms own calculations 9 to 10 million should be enough for a team with podium aspirations. For now they set themselves a deadline for the end of June, when the MotoGP circus is at Assen's circuit again. So they will bite the bullet at Assen, and if the plan goes trough they plan to compete in the 2008 season.

Ten Kate: "We'd love to finish the job we started with  a driver we've already invested in, that's one of our motives. We'll only make the leap if we can be active in 3 classes; WSB, Supersport and MotoGP. Why? Our targeted customers are in WSB, that's what our company is all about. Let's be clear: we will always be involved in Supebike. We have the know-how and experience, and do the tuning inhouse. If we can compete in other classes we have advantages in the technical department, logistics and planning and promotional."

To names that are mentioned as drivers are James Toseland and Cris Vermeulen, both have worked for the team before. Vermeulen won the Supersport title with Ten Kate, and Toseland is detemined to do the same in the WSB championship this year.

[nickjtc]

I'm going to wake this one up, since we are now a few races further on.

Anyone care to bet on Nitro Nori??

[CrisPDuk]

It's a brave guy that makes that bet Nick

He may be one of the most spectacular riders currently appearing, in any series, but I think his 'Win It or Bin It' mentality will get the better of him as the series goes on


I'm sticking with Toseland myself, he's got the bit between his teeth this year, and I believe he's got the tool for the job

[CrisPDuk]

Might just be jumping the gun reviving this thread now, but good luck in France JT, show 'em all how it's done

[ekim98]

I got to stay with Toseland. He's slipped some in the last couple of races but he'll come back. Haga's coming on strong but IMO he's a little to reckless, he's due for a crash.

[malcolmgb]

congratulations to James To52land and of course TenKate Honda